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Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

latimes.com

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Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#91

Post by theNJR »

excursionist wrote: post #55
theNJR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not as much a housing issue as it is a mental health and substance abuse issue. See https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-07/homeless...

Mental health and substance abuse issues don't spontaneously emerge on their own. Lack of money, housing, personal life, etc. are huge contributing causes.

Mental health / substance can cause homelessness. Homelessness can cause mental health / substance. It’s a shit cycle either way, but the one certainty is we are not addressing either in a meaningful way.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#92

Post by theNJR »

coldtea wrote: post #69
theNJR wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not as much a housing issue as it is a mental health and substance abuse issue. See https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-07/homeless...

That's the way some politicians/media try to spin it, but it's not the whole story. Many homeless don't have mental health and substance abuse issues, but are just forced out of their homes on debt, etc. And of course some develop mental health (and sometimes substance abuse issues) after living homeless.

I actually think there is a big spin by certain housing developers to promote this as a housing issue.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#93

Post by livueta »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #63
CodeWriter23 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t feel so bad, the article is also sounds like it was written by someone who has never been to LA. Skid Row overflowed into Little Tokyo several years ago, creating a new ad hoc neighborhood name “Skid Rokyo”. Oh and the there’s the giant homeless encampments every 1-3 miles as you drive around LA.

Japan has homeless encampments also...I saw a nice tidy one in an Osaka park, and also around Uueno in Tokyo. They are fairly clean about it, however.

Yeah, go for a walk down the Arakawa or Sumida embankments (not right now, I guess, given that was all recently underwater) and you'll find some semi-permanent camps in a good state of repair. Talked to some of the guys by one and apparently they've got a pretty strong culture of self-enforcing cleanliness and not messing with the civilians, since they'll get cleared out if the cops get legitimate complaints from people in the area

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#94

Post by carapace »

Bucky Fuller had the idea that we should build houses in factories and deliver them by helicopter. They were designed to fit onto a central mast that supported them and had hook ups for utilities. Basically he wanted to apply the automated assembly line to homes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dymaxion_house

Everyone who wants one should have a home.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#95

Post by drew-y »

notus wrote: post #88
drew-y wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that is an error in the article. I live in Boise. The law allows ticketing if there IS room in shelters. People would not be ticketed if the shelters are full. Not saying it's a good law. But the article is wrong. Edit: Here is the relevant section of the actual code. > Enforcement: Law enforcement officers shall not enforce this camping section when the individual is on public property and there is no availa…

Hi Boise person, been thinking of visiting your city for the first time because I hear so many great things about it (except for this mayor), when is the best time to visit?

Mid to late spring is my favorite time of the year. Perfect temperature and lots too explore. Plus the waterfalls outside of town are at their peak.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#96

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jMyles wrote: post #90
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a public nuisance aspect to people who are living on the street or in forests on land they don’t own/rent. Even mobile vehicles can be problematic if they are parked on the street without access to decent facilities. I don’t think many would have a problem with someone who lacked a permanent home but setup camp or their vehicle on a formal campground with reasonable hygiene facilities so they weren’t pooping…

> There is a public nuisance aspect to people who are living on the street or in forests on land they don’t own/rent. I don't think there is a connection to property ownership and the presence of a nuisance caused by people. So what if people are living on land that they don't own and rent? Who has decreed that land ownership must be the absolute fundamental social norm? What if people are instinctually disinclined t…

There is a high correlation between squatting and property damage. People simply don’t respect what isn’t theirs, and anyways, the lack of formal infrastructure (plumbing, septic, ...) doesn’t give them a lot of options.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#97

Post by Bartweiss »

dv_dt wrote: post #4

In the article, Boise is challenging a court ruling that cities cannot ticket or arrest the homeless if there are no shelter beds available. This begs the question how ticketing/arresting clears the streets? By shoving them elsewhere for another city to ticket? Or housing them in jail (at a much higher expense)? Later in the article it does mention that LA (correction from Boise) is also voiding millions of citations…

> This begs the question how ticketing/arresting clears the streets [if there are no shelter beds available]? By shoving them elsewhere for another city to ticket?

Driving people elsewhere is one major mechanism.

That can mean to other cities - it's a zero-sum game, but so is buying homeless people bus tickets to leave, and cities do that too.[1] It can also mean pushing them outside city limits into the metro area, or into less-desirable areas with fewer officers and/or informal instructions not to ticket the homeless. (Similarly, arresting homeless people isn't meant to house them in jail, but to get them out of heavily-policed areas.)

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/14/us/homeless-busing-seattl...

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#98

Post by romaaeterna »

playeren wrote: post #82
romaaeterna wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. If there are children in any of these encampments, I would say that they need to especially be broken up. Homelessness in modern America is to a great degree elective. People need to be harassed off the streets and into shelters for their own welfare -- especially children -- or involuntarily committed.

> Homelessness in modern America is to a great degree elective How did you determine that?

I've worked on getting some individual people into assisted living situations, etc. The problem has never been lack of beds. It has been the individual involved.

There are a few good books on all of this. It's not a resource problem in the Western world. It's a mental illness and drug problem.

EDIT: I should say rather, the major problem has never been lack of beds. Sometimes I've had to wait a few days, etc., or choose a different place. Nobody has infinite money. But it has never been a major or insurmountable problem.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#99

Post by jcoffland »

Bartweiss wrote: post #97
dv_dt wrote: post #4

In the article, Boise is challenging a court ruling that cities cannot ticket or arrest the homeless if there are no shelter beds available. This begs the question how ticketing/arresting clears the streets? By shoving them elsewhere for another city to ticket? Or housing them in jail (at a much higher expense)? Later in the article it does mention that LA (correction from Boise) is also voiding millions of citations…

> This begs the question how ticketing/arresting clears the streets [if there are no shelter beds available]? By shoving them elsewhere for another city to ticket? Driving people elsewhere is one major mechanism. That can mean to other cities - it's a zero-sum game, but so is buying homeless people bus tickets to leave, and cities do that too.[1] It can also mean pushing them outside city limits into the metro area,…

> Driving people elsewhere is one major mechanism.

This is exactly how Boise has kept it's homeless population low for many years. First they ticket people, then jail them and finally offer to let them go if they get on a bus headed out of the state.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#100

Post by heavyset_go »

tacotime wrote: post #80
tppiotrowski wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have heard the hundreds of dirty needles sentiment from people but have never encountered a neighborhood in LA where there are hundreds of dirty needles on the ground. Is there any photos of this phenomenon online you could point me to or is this mostly hyperbole?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/7n446x/everett_w... https://www.google.com/amp/s/q13fox.com/2017/10/23/ex-addict...

These pics were taken out in the sticks of Everett, apparently in the woods where no one lives.

Where are the the piles of needles people keep claiming they need to walk over on their way out of their apartments in Seattle?

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