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Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

latimes.com

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Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#61

Post by didibus »

jMyles wrote: post #23

One thing that I have never understood about this discussion is why it always seems to avoid the following question: What about people who want to be homeless? Why have we built a society in which anybody who doesn't accept the lifestyle of sleeping in a static, hardened structure, and working to pay rent or a mortgage so as to have the right to do so, is diagnosed with some kind of illness? Isn't it quite clear that…

That's an interesting take. I don't think most people have an issue with a nomadic lifestyle, as long as you can afford it, and it doesn't interfere with other people's lifestyle choices.

I think those latter two points are rare, but I might be mistaken. How many homeless have a job and pay taxes, but choose to be homeless?

I think at the end of the day it's about having the ability to afford yourself and care for yourself. And we tend to believe that if an adult doesn't have this ability (as opposed to the opportunity), then it is a handicapped individual, either physically or mentally handicapped in some way. That's why I think most people believe homeless which aren't suffering from the lack of this ability most likely just lack the opportunity.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#62

Post by seanmcdirmid »

jMyles wrote: post #23

One thing that I have never understood about this discussion is why it always seems to avoid the following question: What about people who want to be homeless? Why have we built a society in which anybody who doesn't accept the lifestyle of sleeping in a static, hardened structure, and working to pay rent or a mortgage so as to have the right to do so, is diagnosed with some kind of illness? Isn't it quite clear that…

There is a public nuisance aspect to people who are living on the street or in forests on land they don’t own/rent. Even mobile vehicles can be problematic if they are parked on the street without access to decent facilities.

I don’t think many would have a problem with someone who lacked a permanent home but setup camp or their vehicle on a formal campground with reasonable hygiene facilities so they weren’t pooping in the street and we weren’t walking over their tents.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#63

Post by seanmcdirmid »

CodeWriter23 wrote: post #11
fred_is_fred wrote: post #2

To save you a click, the "City in Idaho", which is clearly written to make it sound like a village of like 10 people in the middle of nowhere, is Boise.

Don’t feel so bad, the article is also sounds like it was written by someone who has never been to LA. Skid Row overflowed into Little Tokyo several years ago, creating a new ad hoc neighborhood name “Skid Rokyo”. Oh and the there’s the giant homeless encampments every 1-3 miles as you drive around LA.

Japan has homeless encampments also...I saw a nice tidy one in an Osaka park, and also around Uueno in Tokyo. They are fairly clean about it, however.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#64

Post by seanmcdirmid »

crooked-v wrote: post #27
DuskStar wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC that actually hasn't worked too well for Utah in recent years.

Tragedy of the commons is a major factor here. Any city that looks 'homeless friendly' will get people shipped to it from other cities, sometimes as part of explicit 'bus ticket' programs. Really solving this will take work at the national level. There's more than enough wealth around to fund it, given how much goes into the pockets of opioid manufacturers alone.

Homeless people are also fairly mobile, it doesn’t take that much to come up with a $50 bus ticket even if they don’t bother hopping freight cars anymore. Hell, many can even scrounge up enough for one way tickets to Hawaii (...and Hawaii will often take care of the ticket back).

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#65

Post by generalpass »

jlmorton wrote: post #35
generalpass wrote: post #18

The broader issue is why a federal court is interfering with municipal policies.

Because in a constitutional form of government there are lots of things that cities are not allowed to do, and judicial relief from those unconstitutional, or otherwise illegal actions is expected and by design.

Which laws in the U.S. Constitution grant such powers over municipal governments?

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#66

Post by snuxoll »

jMyles wrote: post #23

One thing that I have never understood about this discussion is why it always seems to avoid the following question: What about people who want to be homeless? Why have we built a society in which anybody who doesn't accept the lifestyle of sleeping in a static, hardened structure, and working to pay rent or a mortgage so as to have the right to do so, is diagnosed with some kind of illness? Isn't it quite clear that…

> Why have we built a society in which anybody who doesn't accept the lifestyle of sleeping in a static, hardened structure, and working to pay rent or a mortgage so as to have the right to do so, is diagnosed with some kind of illness?

Equally amusing is that we attempt to make this a requirement, but do not make this a fundamental right in association with said requirement.

If you're going to MAKE people have something, it should be provided for them IMO.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#67

Post by coldtea »

tppiotrowski wrote: post #54
alexbanks wrote: post #44

It's an exhausting problem. I live in Portland, which is just another west coast city having increasing trouble with a rising homeless population. On one hand yes, they're people and they deserve help and support and appropriate housing and access to rehab and structure. But on the other hand, if you buy a house in Portland there's very little you can do to prevent your front sidewalk from getting turned into a homel…

I have heard the hundreds of dirty needles sentiment from people but have never encountered a neighborhood in LA where there are hundreds of dirty needles on the ground. Is there any photos of this phenomenon online you could point me to or is this mostly hyperbole?

Doesn't have to be "hundreds of dirty needles on the ground" in the same spot . It's enough that there are hundreds of dirty needles on the ground to be discovered in the span of a couple square miles or so...

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#68

Post by dv_dt »

veezbo wrote: post #59
dv_dt wrote: post #4

In the article, Boise is challenging a court ruling that cities cannot ticket or arrest the homeless if there are no shelter beds available. This begs the question how ticketing/arresting clears the streets? By shoving them elsewhere for another city to ticket? Or housing them in jail (at a much higher expense)? Later in the article it does mention that LA (correction from Boise) is also voiding millions of citations…

LA is the city that's voiding the citations.

Ah you're right thanks, and edited. There was a semi-ambiguous "they" I tripped over not reading quite closely enough in the article.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#69

Post by coldtea »

theNJR wrote: post #31
tehjoker wrote: post #15

Brutal article. They're trying to conduct a violent purge/exile of homeless while dressing it up as caring about them. Give them houses wtf

This is not as much a housing issue as it is a mental health and substance abuse issue. See https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-10-07/homeless...

That's the way some politicians/media try to spin it, but it's not the whole story.

Many homeless don't have mental health and substance abuse issues, but are just forced out of their homes on debt, etc. And of course some develop mental health (and sometimes substance abuse issues) after living homeless.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#70

Post by coldtea »

creaghpatr wrote: post #41
tehjoker wrote: post #15

Brutal article. They're trying to conduct a violent purge/exile of homeless while dressing it up as caring about them. Give them houses wtf

Give me a house while you're at it.

Sure, but only if you need one because you're homeless and don't ask as a privileged person that already has a job/caring family/house/money...
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