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Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

latimes.com

71–80 of 109 posts

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#71

Brutal article. They're trying to conduct a violent purge/exile of homeless while dressing it up as caring about them. Give them houses wtf

> Give them houses

Assuming that is an affordable solution (it's not), we will then simply end up with destroyed houses.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#72
post #5
post #4

In the article, Boise is challenging a court ruling that cities cannot ticket or arrest the homeless if there are no shelter beds available. This begs the question how ticketing/arresting clears the streets? By shoving them elsewhere for another city to ticket? Or housing them in jail (at a much higher expense)? Later in the article it does mention that LA (correction from Boise) is also voiding millions of citations…

Usually putting them in jail. Then at least you don't have residents complaining about homeless tent camps. And the cops feel like they have a tool to "fight homelessness." And the added (perceived) incentive of disincentivizing people from coming to your area to be homeless and set up semi-permanent tent camps.

On one hand, I do understand these are tools to "do something" that may occasionally help, on the other hand, sometimes tools when available become overused and I think are fundamentally inadequate for addressing the root (very difficult) problem. I think LA has actually in recent years brought online a lot of added housing for the homeless, but unfortunately the numbers of homeless seems to also be surging upwards; and in almost all US cities it seems.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because in a constitutional form of government there are lots of things that cities are not allowed to do, and judicial relief from those unconstitutional, or otherwise illegal actions is expected and by design.

Which laws in the U.S. Constitution grant such powers over municipal governments?

According to the US Ninth Circuit, 42 U.S.C. §1983, and the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution, prohibiting the imposition of excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishment, on the basis that homeless people have no choice in the matter of their homelessness.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which laws in the U.S. Constitution grant such powers over municipal governments?

According to the US Ninth Circuit, 42 U.S.C. §1983, and the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution, prohibiting the imposition of excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishment, on the basis that homeless people have no choice in the matter of their homelessness.

The bases of your claims are in court decisions. Is it correct that courts are the ones who grant powers?

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the US Ninth Circuit, 42 U.S.C. §1983, and the 8th Amendment to the US Constitution, prohibiting the imposition of excessive fines, or cruel and unusual punishment, on the basis that homeless people have no choice in the matter of their homelessness.

The bases of your claims are in court decisions. Is it correct that courts are the ones who grant powers?

The powers are not granted by the courts, the Constitution is interpreted by the courts. The concept of judicial review goes back to the country's founding.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bases of your claims are in court decisions. Is it correct that courts are the ones who grant powers?

The powers are not granted by the courts, the Constitution is interpreted by the courts. The concept of judicial review goes back to the country's founding.

Did the constitution grant the courts power to be the final decider of all law, everywhere?

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#78

It's an exhausting problem. I live in Portland, which is just another west coast city having increasing trouble with a rising homeless population. On one hand yes, they're people and they deserve help and support and appropriate housing and access to rehab and structure. But on the other hand, if you buy a house in Portland there's very little you can do to prevent your front sidewalk from getting turned into a homel…

I have heard the hundreds of dirty needles sentiment from people but have never encountered a neighborhood in LA where there are hundreds of dirty needles on the ground. Is there any photos of this phenomenon online you could point me to or is this mostly hyperbole?

"Thousands of pounds of human waste, close to 14,000 hypodermic needles cleaned out from Santa Ana River homeless encampments" - https://www.ocregister.com/2018/03/08/thousands-of-pounds-of...

They will also need to remove a few inches of topsoil to clean it up. This is the sort of procedure that is used to clean up toxic chemical spills, high levels of pollution, and nuclear waste.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to at least try before coming to that conclusion.

Definitely. I'm by no means saying "Do nothing, let them die." But I'm also saying "We have to rehabilitate them" is not a good enough idea either - you can't make people want help.

> you can't make people want help.

You can make people receive help. We just don't do that anymore because we've adopted a principle of radical autonomy, which apparently includes the "freedom" for the mentally ill and addicted to literally rot on the streets.

Many homeless advocates seem to have similar fears as gun rights advocate. Whereas some people vociferously oppose gun restrictions because of an irrational fear of helplessness in the face of crime if they couldn't carry a gun anywhere and everywhere, some homeless advocates vociferously oppose forced psychiatric and drug abuse treatment because of an irrational fear--obscured by a simplistic, self-serving sense of empathy--that they'll somehow be forced into such treatment or otherwise lose their own autonomy.

The boogey man of big government out to get you isn't just a motivating fear of the right, it's also a motivating fear of the left.

Re: Boise is why L.A. can’t legally clear its streets of homeless encampments

#80

It's an exhausting problem. I live in Portland, which is just another west coast city having increasing trouble with a rising homeless population. On one hand yes, they're people and they deserve help and support and appropriate housing and access to rehab and structure. But on the other hand, if you buy a house in Portland there's very little you can do to prevent your front sidewalk from getting turned into a homel…

I have heard the hundreds of dirty needles sentiment from people but have never encountered a neighborhood in LA where there are hundreds of dirty needles on the ground. Is there any photos of this phenomenon online you could point me to or is this mostly hyperbole?

https://www.reddit.com/r/SeattleWA/comments/7n446x/everett_w...

https://www.google.com/amp/s/q13fox.com/2017/10/23/ex-addict...

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