Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#401

Post by sho » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #352

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

> wants all these rights others don't have This is exactly how the United States is setup. Notice how pot is legal in some states and not others? I don't see the National Guard marching on Colorado.

Pot? That's your argument?

Show me the state where you can show full penetrative sex on public TV at 9pm, like you can in europe, and I'll agree they're independent.

EDIT: OK, that was a dumb example. Substitute banning guns, or lowering the drinking age, or lowering income tax. Country-level things.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#402

Post by jbattle » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:48 PM UTC

whatshisface wrote: post #384

jbattle wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go read the comment section on Breitbart or Fox or Red State. American Exceptionalism is still gospel truth for ~half the country

American exceptionalism isn't the same thing as manifest destiny. Republicans might be patriotic but most do not support wars of conquest or global expansionism. In fact, the "America first" slogan that recently helped win an election has been attacked as isolationist.

You're right. I read 'manifest destiny' as short hand for "USA USA!" boosterism. China obviously isn't an expansionist colonial power either. But I concede the point that Manifest Destiny really hasn't been an active doctrine in our lifetime.

Maaaaybe if you look at the Project for the New American Century with the right lens.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#403

Post by danpalmer » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

collyw wrote: post #374

Is it possible for the average user to install this outside of the app store? Or do you need a rooted phone for that?

It's possible with an enterprise distribution certificate. There are "fake" app stores that distribute pirated apps, they are particularly common in Asia, and I believe many "average" users use them.

Apple can shuts them down by revoking the certificates, but it seems to reduce the visibility, and therefore extend the time that they can work for.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#404

Post by idlewords » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

phyzome wrote: post #245

> we have verified with the Hong Kong Cybersecurity and Technology Crime Bureau [CSTCB] that the app has been used to target and ambush police "the foxes have verified that the app has been used by hens to ambush foxes"

The Hong Kong authorities just had a press conference where they basically said "this is purely an Apple matter" https://twitter.com/TMclaughlin3/status/1182301330339184641

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#405

Post by xibalba » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #376

xibalba wrote: post #344

This is a vexing problem. It seems that many here would want Apply to defy China. This will result in Apple's expulsion from China/HK. Those users will then move to other phone mfgs/services providers, with higher probability that it will be Chinese, thereby granting the PRC even more power over HK'ers. Contrarily is the "seat at the table" approach. Apple could comply with China, while continually introducing featur…

I agree with you that it is more complicated than just leaving or not. Plus, Apple is currently dependent on Chinese manufacturing (a problem of Apples own making for sure). I would love to know what the conversations are between Apple and China right now. IMO, Apple has to be working towards removing their dependence on Chinese manufacturing, if for nothing else for business risk mitigation.

> Apple is currently dependent on Chinese manufacturing

This seems like the single most overlooked aspect of this. Bc of this, China has existential leverage over Apple.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#406

Post by aembleton » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:49 PM UTC

ccvannorman wrote: post #338

adam12 wrote: post #318

Why does this have to be an app in the App store? I wonder what APIs they are using that can't be replaced by something that will work in the browser.

Browser apps can't penetrate the Great China Firewall as China can simply ban the domain

Hong Kong isn't behind the Great Firewall

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#407

Post by not_a_cop75 » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

donohoe wrote: post #354

Wait. They did ban it. Then they approved it again. Have they banned it again? See BoingBoing article from Oct 4th: "Apple reverses ban on HKmap.live app tracking Hong Kong protests & police" https://boingboing.net/2019/10/04/hkmap-live-hong-kong.html

Is it like it cant be loaded via other means? Apple store, surprisingly enough is not the only game in town when getting things to install to Apple.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#408

Post by sho » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

jf- wrote: post #378

sho wrote: post #315

Here we go again... Let me explain how Chinese people think about HK, since none of them ever seem to explain it on a site like this. Imagine you are a middle class American. Maybe you are but if not, just imagine, tech city on the east or west coast. You're pretty invested in being an American, skin in the game, manifest destiny etc. Very good. They call this tianxia by the way, basically Chinese manifest destiny. L…

Your characterisation of the Chinese public does not make it seem more sympathetic, quite the reverse: it makes them seem petty and spiteful, lashing out at a population which is better educated and more prosperous than them, one unwilling to suffer under the yoke of the CCP as the majority have been indoctrinated to do. Why not let Hong Kong be independent? What moral claim does mainland China have to the territory…

Please understand I wasn't trying to make it seem more sympathetic, just trying to shed light. I basically agree that they should grow a thicker skin and just let HK be HK.

None of which changes the facts that China owns and shares a land border with HK, China is 200x bigger than HK, and might makes right.

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#409

Post by coldtea » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

mikece wrote: post #317

I was about to ask why Silicon Valley companies act so beholden to China... and then I remembered where their supply chain originates.

They also have a huge market there, that's on the rise for future decades (many poor remaining trying to become middle class), whereas their own are getting saturated...

Re: Apple Removes HKmap.live from the App Store

#410

Post by thewholeview » Thu, Oct 10, 2019, 2:51 PM UTC

UIZealot wrote: post #270

It helps to know a little bit about what's been going on in Hong Kong, before you all decide to line up and take your daily dump on China. It all started a few months ago when someone committed a crime in Taiwan and fled to Hong Kong. To prevent HK from becoming a safe haven for criminals, the Chief Executive of HK proposed a new law to facilitate extradition of these crime suspects from HK to various jurisdictions i…

Thanks for trying to educate the mass in a factual manner, and I'd like to apologize for others for voting you down. Unfortunately many of HN are fueled currently by a righteous sense of nationalism and words outside the context of the media cannot be easily consumed at the moment. It's absolutely similar in Chinese forums though as we are through an era that has the easiest path towards a propaganda for a collective herd mentality. However it is important to continue to present the facts as it's a gain overall for the entire community to not have the facts/opposing views to be censored.