Pricing niche products • Hacker News Board

Re: Pricing niche products

#351

Post by kragen » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:43 PM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #348

kragen wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Status signaling is a specific way of impressing other people: it's impressing them with your status , sometimes called more precisely prestige (as opposed to, for example, your money, your strength, your talent, or your character), in a way that's difficult to fake because it's costly . So, for example, Donald Trump bragging on a talk show about sexually assaulting strange women counts as "status signaling", because…

Every part of that is wrong: - Status signaling is the only way of impressing other people. - Signaling is sending any message by any means. Signals that are difficult to fake are more effective than signals that aren't. But easy-to-fake signals are obviously still signals. - Status is anything that impresses other people. Money, strength, talent, and character are all forms of status that are valued differently by d…

Bless your heart. To anyone who would like to know more, I recommend reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_theory and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_status, and of course the scholarship they link to.

Re: Pricing niche products

#352

Post by detaro » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 10:55 PM UTC

gnomewascool wrote: post #84

rmbryan wrote: post #67

I suspect a set of shill bidders may be at work here. Is there a way to guard against the seller inflating prices by bidding?

I think that for a Vickrey auction, the worst that a malicious seller could do, by injecting "false" bids, is (assuming the number of items sold is n ), raise the price from the value of the n+1 th bid to just under the value of the n th bid. (Otherwise they'd end up with unsold stock.)

Unsold stock could still be more profitable if the bids fall right, although could of course be noticed depending on the product and audience.

At the core, at least everyone winning is always going to spend less than they bid.

Re: Pricing niche products

#353

Post by PhasmaFelis » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:41 AM UTC

kazinator wrote: post #62

equalunique wrote: post #6

It's disappointing how so much money is being poured into "mechanical keyboard kits" that simply re-create the old ANSI/ISO layouts that are rooted in old limitations from the days of the typewriter. Alternate layouts & ortholinear/ergonomic designs should be the forefront of the movement. All this focus on outdated designs makes the community "accessible" but also holds people back. The emergence of row-staggered 40…

It's disappointing how a $100,000 watch still has a big and little hand going around a conventional 12 hour dial ...

That would be disappointing! If you're charging $100,000 for a damn watch, it had better beam the time directly into my brain at all times.

Re: Pricing niche products

#354

Post by kentt » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:12 AM UTC

simias wrote: post #297

CommieBobDole wrote: post #114

These things have become so esoteric and expensive because the mechanical keyboard hobby is undergoing a more intense version of what happens to most hobbies/pastimes; the purpose of the hobby has transitioned from primarily "making/using the thing" to "obtaining and displaying ever more extreme versions of the thing to impress other people who know about the thing". I feel like this is an outgrowth of the basic huma…

>I think this is so strong in the mechanical keyboard community because there's not a lot of "there" there. I actually disagree with that, which is why I'm a bit annoyed at the state of keyboard enthusiast communities. I think that there's plenty of room for improving keyboards, not necessarily for better performance but mainly for more comfort. Over the past decade or so I've been using more and more "esotheric" lay…

Hi. Yes also annoyed by the state of the keyboard enthusiast communities, or rather, I just don't care about having an artisanal key or a rare keyboard, but rather RSI, efficiency, and customizability.

It sounds like you've gone down the rabbit hole with this. Could you tell me a bit about where you've landed especially wrt layout and custom programming?

Re: Pricing niche products

#355

Post by thaumasiotes » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

kragen wrote: post #351

thaumasiotes wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every part of that is wrong: - Status signaling is the only way of impressing other people. - Signaling is sending any message by any means. Signals that are difficult to fake are more effective than signals that aren't. But easy-to-fake signals are obviously still signals. - Status is anything that impresses other people. Money, strength, talent, and character are all forms of status that are valued differently by d…

Bless your heart. To anyone who would like to know more, I recommend reading https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_theory and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_status , and of course the scholarship they link to.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signalling_theory :

> In biology, signals are traits, including structures and behaviours, that have evolved specifically because they change the behaviour of receivers in ways that benefit the signaller.

In other words, they are communication.

> When an alert bird deliberately gives a warning call to a stalking predator and the predator gives up the hunt, the sound is a signal.

Because warning calls are costly and difficult to fake? No, warning calls are faked all the time, to frighten other animals.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_status :

> Social status defines being liked. Some writers have also referred to a socially valued role or category a person occupies as a "status" (e.g., gender, race, having a criminal conviction, etc.). Status is based in beliefs about who members of a society believe holds comparatively more or less social value.

> In a society, the relative honor and prestige accorded to individuals depends on how well an individual is perceived to match a society's goals and ideals (e.g., being pious in a religious society).

> a teacher may have a positive societal image (respect, prestige) which increases their status but may earn little money, which simultaneously decreases their status.

This all amounts to... strong support for exactly what I already said. Did you read these articles before citing them?

Re: Pricing niche products

#356

Post by pmarreck » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 1:58 PM UTC

phaus wrote: post #252

pmarreck wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You would think (rationally at least) that people obsessed with the optimal interface between user and computer would focus on non-QWERTY layouts instead of dropping dough on intricate mechanical keyboards (yeah, cue "por que no los dos?" but still!)

There's a lot of people in this hobby that use Dvorak, and the other obscure layout that I don't even remember the name of. Some even design and sell PCBs/entire kits for them. Most of the keyboards seem to use QMK, an open source, programmable firmware so you can do whatever you want. There's a lot of debate on those layouts and their usefulness. There's people that swear it saved them from RSI and there's people th…

COLEMAK? is that the "other obscure layout"?

Re: Pricing niche products

#357

Post by nine_k » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 2:34 PM UTC

whack wrote: post #91

When eBay first started, I loved the idea of auctions as a way to set market prices. From an economic and game-theory perspective, it is so optimal! Clearly as later examples like Amazon have shown, auctions don't make sense for most product categories. I believe this is mainly due to psychological reasons. Decision-fatigue is a real thing. People dislike having to think hard. In a fixed-price sale, the buyer just ha…

It's not only the price, it's the time and certainty, resources often more scarce than money.

A fixed price item is yours once you have paid for it. The amount you have paid is also known and fixed.

In an auction, there can be no certainty for days.

An auction may make sense (to me) for very expensive items, where a 10% difference can affect my ability to pay, but I am not in a hurry. Then the uncertainty can be worth it. Something like a car maybe.

For daily items, it absolutely does not apply. Paying 50¢ less for a tube of toothpaste? Nice, but doesn't beat not having toothpaste in the morning because I lost my bid and the next auction ends in 2 days.

Re: Pricing niche products

#358

Post by phaus » Sun, Oct 06, 2019, 3:22 PM UTC

pmarreck wrote: post #356

phaus wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a lot of people in this hobby that use Dvorak, and the other obscure layout that I don't even remember the name of. Some even design and sell PCBs/entire kits for them. Most of the keyboards seem to use QMK, an open source, programmable firmware so you can do whatever you want. There's a lot of debate on those layouts and their usefulness. There's people that swear it saved them from RSI and there's people th…

COLEMAK? is that the "other obscure layout"?

That's one of them. Not sure how obscure it actually is. I'm not very knowledgable about alternative layouts, I just see the names come up frequently.

Re: Pricing niche products

#359

Post by flr03 » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

PeterStuer wrote: post #345

flr03 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt what you say about wine. Wine tasting is extremely complex and some experts might not be as near as good as they think they are. But an expensive aged Bordeaux will not taste like a cheap random 6€ supermarket bottle. Also, taste is just one criteria on the price, rarity plays a big part (some vineyards are small, some years the production is smaller), the wine ageing potential is another criteria etc.

Some references: "Expensive and inexpensive wines taste the same, research shows" https://phys.org/news/2011-04-expensive-inexpensive-wines.ht... "The Color of Odors" (add red food coloring to a white wine and tasters think it is a red wine) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11712849 "Expensive wine and cheap plonk taste the same to most people" https://www.theguardian.com/science/2011/apr/14/expensive-wi... For th…

Thank you for your references, but you are missing the point. Neither of your link actually contradict my statement, if your read the article beyond the click bait.

Two of them are about classifying the wine from cheap to expensive, which makes no sense because the price doesn't mean the wine taste better, taste is actually subjective first of all and the price does not only depend on the taste anyway as I explained before. Giving a rank to wines or saying that they are different is actually an immense difference in term of logic.

The one about colours is not relevant either. It states that people are influenced by the colour and dismiss the odour. Being able to distinguish similar wines in taste is very difficult, regardless of the price and wine colour. It takes an expert to do it because of the shear number of flavours. Even expert can be fouled when wine are close.

I wish you had the opportunity to try a nice aged Bordeaux one day you'll get my point. For most people all bread are the same, all rice tastes the same, truth is if you are into this kind of food you are able to tell them apart.

Re: Pricing niche products

#360

Post by PeterStuer » Mon, Oct 07, 2019, 10:03 AM UTC

dubcanada wrote: post #115

PeterStuer wrote: post #27

Why do exclusive wines fetch several hundred a bottle when in double blind tasting tests oenologists fail to differentiate them from 6€ supermarket wine? Why does the same Malaysia made shirt go up in price 50x if it gets a top brand label attached a opposed to a cheap generic brand one?

Why does the same Malaysia made shirt go up in price 50x if it gets a top brand label attached a opposed to a cheap generic brand one? This one seems like a stretch. Top brands have a level of quality that is much different than a random Walmart brand. When you get to the differences between a $100 shirt and a $1000 shirt is when you stop finding a large difference. But there is usually a vast difference between a $5…

Brands also make a nice side profit licensing their designs an labels to cheap factories that specifically produce for outlet stores.

Most of the top brand clothes you buy at these stores (estimated at 85%) are not the original brand clothes from things like leftover stock, but are specifically produced using lower quality materials and processes for outlets. They are not 'fake' in the sense that these are not 'pirated' goods. They legitimately license the designs and branding, but in terms of 'quality' they are miles away from the 'real' thing people think they are buying.

So I'm not saying your top brand high-street shirt is the same as a cheap Malaysian produced for private labeling, I'm saying your Outlet sourced top brand one has a very high chance of being close.