Pricing niche products • Hacker News Board

Re: Pricing niche products

#211

Post by CDSlice » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:19 PM UTC

phaus wrote: post #200

CDSlice wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, each keyboard case + switch + keycap setup is going to feel and sound slightly different. So it isn't really an objective improvement but they will likely be distinguishable from one another. Some people are into it for the way it sounds. This sounds pretty much like what headphone audiophiles say. > However, each driver + housing + amp setup is going to feel and sound slightly different. So it isn't reall…

For headphones, the audiophiles are right. They are even right about quality for a $2000 set of headphones, if its the right model vs a fashion brand. Each price tier tends to have a certain level of quality, and within that tier you can expect different sounds still. Some of the super high end stuff has noticeable amounts of detail over a wider range, so it can be actually "better" than a specific $500 set of headph…

Oh yes, I 100% agree with you on that. $2000 cables are just stupid. However, you can spend around $100 or so on really nice handmade cables that look and feel better than the stock cables, which seems comparable to spending lots of money on artisinal keycaps, no?

Re: Pricing niche products

#212

Post by chipotle_coyote » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:21 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #189

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry I wasn't clear! What I'm getting at is when you're flexing in Discord/GeekHack/Reddit using a Alice is a very strong signal. Just using it as your personal keyboard in normal day-to-day settings isn't nearly the same. Because you're not actively showing it off.

I would disagree strongly, and I would go so far as to claim that signalling isn't done for the in-group, it's done for the out group. Apple users don't wear white ear buds to signal to one another, they do it exclusively to signal to people who don't have it that the apple user can afford product and symbol greatly in excess of the person. Same with mechanical keyboards. The signal there is to people using shitty 20…

Apple users don't wear white ear buds to signal to one another, they do it exclusively to signal to people who don't have it that the apple user can afford product and symbol greatly in excess of the person.

Or, you know, they're not interested in "signaling" anything, they're wearing them because they're the free ear buds that came with their smartphone and they're listening to music or making a phone call.

Re: Pricing niche products

#213

Post by BubRoss » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:22 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #201

criley2 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it ever occur to you that people buy mechanical keyboards because it's just good/better? (And P.S. subjective ideas of good/better are what they are, but no fair objective analysis of price and value would agree with you. A thousand dollar phone is a pure status symbol and owning it has nothing to do with a rational attempt to achieve value per dollar)

I own a $1000 phone and avoid as much as possible other people in public seeing it, because I don't want it to get stolen and I think being recognized for owning a "status symbol" is awkward. Is it really so hard to believe that some people buy the most expensive iPhone simply because it's the best phone available on the market?

He never said no one buys apple without thinking about status.

Re: Pricing niche products

#214

Post by criley2 » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:23 PM UTC

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #212

criley2 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree strongly, and I would go so far as to claim that signalling isn't done for the in-group, it's done for the out group. Apple users don't wear white ear buds to signal to one another, they do it exclusively to signal to people who don't have it that the apple user can afford product and symbol greatly in excess of the person. Same with mechanical keyboards. The signal there is to people using shitty 20…

Apple users don't wear white ear buds to signal to one another, they do it exclusively to signal to people who don't have it that the apple user can afford product and symbol greatly in excess of the person. Or, you know, they're not interested in "signaling" anything, they're wearing them because they're the free ear buds that came with their smartphone and they're listening to music or making a phone call.

Right, and a decade of advertisements featuring those status symbols were pointless because no one cares about them.

Alternatively: Or you know, mechanical keyboard users aren't interested in "signalling" anything, they're just using well manufactured accessories featuring high quality processes and materials.

Re: Pricing niche products

#215

Post by chipotle_coyote » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #190

dsabanin wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it ever occur to you that people buy Apple stuff because it’s just good/better?

Did it ever occur to you that people buy mechanical keyboards because it's just good/better? (And P.S. subjective ideas of good/better are what they are, but no fair objective analysis of price and value would agree with you. A thousand dollar phone is a pure status symbol and owning it has nothing to do with a rational attempt to achieve value per dollar)

I buy mechanical keyboards because I prefer them for desktop use. I buy iPhones because I prefer iOS's app ecosystem. These are both subjective but rational choices.

Re: Pricing niche products

#216

Post by phaus » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:24 PM UTC

criley2 wrote: post #169

SuperPaintMan wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very much signalling, you want something that sets you apart from other users and if that means custom CNC'd cases, with harvested switches that have been lubed using the finest tears mounted on a custom plate. So you have something to ogle and show off to the others. And that's before we get into the scarcity territory that sees secondhand TGR Alices going for over 5K. It's weird, a good chunk of people buy my Georg…

It's funny how on hacker news apparently buying a fancy keyboard for your home where no one can see it is "signalling", but if you point out that wearing Apple watch, holding iPhone, and displaying those ear buds is also signalling/branding/status symboling, I am generally very aggressively downvoted. I'd say buying a mechanical keyboard with RGB lights and nice switches is probably 100X less signalling (several orde…

$1100 Iphone - I'm with you on this one, I have a super expensive phone and I don't see the quality over the flagship phones of what seems like yesterday being $600. There's a lot of expensive, cutting edge stuff in my Note9 and my wife's giant iPhone that we probably wouldn't miss if it were cheaper.

That being said I don't think in a world where so many people have iphones we can consider an iphone as that much of a signal for anything.

iWatch - This is a niche genre of cools toys where there's 2 viable options. 1 clearly nicer than the other but it doesn't matter because your phone unfortunately dictates which one you get. Yea its a signal but some people like to be early adopters and play with new toys, I don't think those people are buying them for the wrong reasons.

Apple Ear Buds - Headphone jacks are gone on our expensive phones. For a while there were like 2-3 options, all like $200, and they all have like 2-3 out of 5 star reviews because the tech isn't ready for primetime but apple's a POS and lets their products suffer just to be trendy and Samsung's a POS by racing to copy them. So the end result is people that want ear buds need them or a dongle. I don't really consider this a signal, but maybe that's because all of the wireless earbuds are bad and stupid looking. I bought Jabra but I honestly like the Apple ones though because its one of the only times they ever (in a way) chose function over form. They look far more ridiculous than most wireless earbuds.

I wouldn't pay much more than I already have for a keyboard, but I can provide one example of where someone paid a lot of money for a keyboard where he would not have gotten the same thing or a similar thing if he had paid less.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeqnEJpPZVY

This video is considered the holy grail in terms of what a mechanical keyboard can sound like. An Apex Legends pro (Dizzy) asked him to replicate that exact build and at that point the parts were harder to source. Was it worth it? Still subjective, but to many people mechanical keyboards feel good to use because they like the way they sound.

Re: Pricing niche products

#217

Post by criley2 » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:25 PM UTC

School-Cotton wrote: post #201

criley2 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did it ever occur to you that people buy mechanical keyboards because it's just good/better? (And P.S. subjective ideas of good/better are what they are, but no fair objective analysis of price and value would agree with you. A thousand dollar phone is a pure status symbol and owning it has nothing to do with a rational attempt to achieve value per dollar)

I own a $1000 phone and avoid as much as possible other people in public seeing it, because I don't want it to get stolen and I think being recognized for owning a "status symbol" is awkward. Is it really so hard to believe that some people buy the most expensive iPhone simply because it's the best phone available on the market?

"Is it really so hard to believe that some people buy the most expensive iPhone simply because it's the best phone available on the market?"

I can believe that you THINK it's the best, and worth the money -- that's literally what advertising is for and how status symbols work -- but of course I would reject any claim that any $1000 phone is worth it on the merits. (Example, this 'pro' branded flagship phone comes standard with a bottom-of-the-industry 32GB of space, a laughably inferior specification for 2019 flagships where 64gb is standard and 128gb base is available. That's objectively the worst, not the best).

Re: Pricing niche products

#218

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:30 PM UTC

lewisflude wrote: post #12

I'm in the $600+ club too (Kepler that has a full brass bottom weight 6+kg, Kepler 65 with it's forged carbon top etc.) It's a really strange hobby. A bunch of people who really value and love keyboards, the thing that sits between a human and a computer, a tool that many (developers, writers, gamers) use every day for hours on end. Similar to how someone might invest in a nice knife if they love cooking, luxury-pric…

You would think (rationally at least) that people obsessed with the optimal interface between user and computer would focus on non-QWERTY layouts instead of dropping dough on intricate mechanical keyboards

(yeah, cue "por que no los dos?" but still!)

Re: Pricing niche products

#219

Post by tomc1985 » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:31 PM UTC

gnicholasgreen wrote: post #205

tomc1985 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, because for all the money and chatter about them most of the companies providing them are making carbon copies of each other with little real innovation -- they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else. Computer-building has turned into this, at least if r/pcmasterrace is any indication. It's positively infuriating -- 99% of people's posts are bragging/vali…

> they're always the same square shape and its always about fancy keyswitches, RGB, and little else. This is where I disagree. I had severe hand and arm tendon pain for years, and finally dove into ergonomic mechanical keyboard options. It solved my issues, and I no longer feel the pain after typing all day. I easily spend $350+ for a keyboard, and it's a very practical, life-changing decision, which involves a non-r…

Fair enough, but when I look at pictures of peoples' builds it is almost always a square keyboard with fancy backlighting.

I'm personally a fan of the MS ergos with the wrist wrests and have mixed feelings about how that design doesn't seem to be getting replicated anywhere

Re: Pricing niche products

#220

Post by BubRoss » Fri, Oct 04, 2019, 5:33 PM UTC

equalunique wrote: post #6

It's disappointing how so much money is being poured into "mechanical keyboard kits" that simply re-create the old ANSI/ISO layouts that are rooted in old limitations from the days of the typewriter. Alternate layouts & ortholinear/ergonomic designs should be the forefront of the movement. All this focus on outdated designs makes the community "accessible" but also holds people back. The emergence of row-staggered 40…

The layouts can be whatever you want. The keycaps are interchangeable and the layout is dictated by the firmware flashed to an Arduino.