Edit: just saw @elosarv's link to a longer but more relevant "motorcycle invisibility training" video (https://youtu.be/x94PGgYKHQ0
Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
51–60 of 189 posts
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean, it's their fault to be sure, but can you blame them? Drivers have had nearly a century of society bending over backwards to suit them. We rewrote pedestrian law to give cars the right of way in all but a few select spots. We built a highway system and cut neighborhoods square in half to make road travel easier. Driving has become far too casual, too "just a thing you do." People don't respect it anymore. I'm…
It's wrong to conflate conspicuous consumption with quality. Expensive cars are usually bigger and more dangerous. It's also wrong to conflate cars and driving. Loving cars doesn't make you a safer driver, and may well be the opposite, since it focuses your attention on your vehicle and not the social interaction of driving.
Maybe it's a socio-economic thing. Maybe they're stressed out from working low-paying jobs. I dunno. This is my experience and I know it isn't scientific data.
And to be clear, when I say I'm a car guy, what I mean is I enjoy both cars and the act of driving. Not to toot my own horn here but I'm going on 12 years of driving with nothing beyond a speeding ticket.
Edit: As an aside, I don't drive a particularly expensive car either so I'm not snobbing here. Most of the time I'm in my F-150 which is a little posh I suppose but hardly the most expensive thing on the road most of the time.
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#53A few tips from a long-time motorcycle rider... 1. When crossing a car that could potentially accelerate into your path, train yourself to keep a hand on your front brake. 2. Get better at emergency stops. Train your self to "wait for the weight", meaning progressively apply front brake so that the weight of the bike transfers to the front tire before full application. Practice emergency stops so you don't end up wit…
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#54There's a second factor at work beyond memory - it's the human visual perceptive system. Bikes are not always moving across the visual field, and they aren't fitting the pattern of a bigger single-color smooth object so it's effectively camouflage. This is an outstanding vid on the whole subject illustrating the problem and some avoidance methods. This should be taught in rider training but it's not (US). https://www…
This was in Montana, US.
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#55Earlier quoted context omitted.
And that's how people usually react when someone is hit on 2 wheeled vehicle: trying to find a reason the rider deserved it. It's built into the language of articles about crashes too. You'll see 'it is not known if the rider was wearing a helmet'[1] without any similar remarks about the driver of the car. Or the oxymoronic 'police are still investigating the accident '[2]. [1] I wrote this, then searched to find an…
And that's how people usually react when someone is hit on 2 wheeled vehicle: trying to find a reason the rider deserved it. If I’m in a car and disobey the traffic laws and get in an accident with someone who was following the law - by definition, I’m at fault.
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#56A few tips from a long-time motorcycle rider... 1. When crossing a car that could potentially accelerate into your path, train yourself to keep a hand on your front brake. 2. Get better at emergency stops. Train your self to "wait for the weight", meaning progressively apply front brake so that the weight of the bike transfers to the front tire before full application. Practice emergency stops so you don't end up wit…
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#57As a motorcyclist and defensive driver I find these kind of articles worrying, because they imply that riders are rolling around trusting other people not to hit them. The first rule of motorcycling, that you accept when you swing your leg over a bike, is that no matter whose fault any collision might be, it is your responsibility and yours alone to anticipate and avoid all such incidents. "But he pulled out in front…
It’s interesting to me: As a fellow motorcyclist, I agree with your philosophy wholeheartedly. But most bicyclists (who are arguably at more risk from a car/truck than a motorcyclist) disagree with this just as wholeheartedly. I seriously wonder why this dichotomy exists, especially as bicycles are gaining electric motors capable of propelling them at higher and higher speeds.
So while they may be in more danger, there is a different set of expectations.
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
When i saw that for the first time (in a tram in Nagasaki, as I recall) I first thought the driver is a few fries short of a happy meal. It looks so weird to Western eyes. Then later reading up about it it actually makes a lot of sense. Some more material to read up on it: https://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/pointing-and-calling-j...
No need for the irrelevant racism. Safety procedures aren't an inherent part of Eastern cultures. Some US transit agencies do the same point and call.
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#59My first thought was that the motorcyclist in the picture almost deserves to be hit for driving illegally and dangerously between two cars - ie lane splitting. But from the comments, it does seem to be legal some places. But, in all other states in the US besides CA, it is explicitly illegal. It still seems unsafe even it is legal.
Lane splitting is safe (safer than not lane splitting, in congestion) provided the motorcycle doesn't go too much (ca. 15 mph) faster than traffic. https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/29/motorcycle-lanesplittin...
The study itself explicitly states that they don't have the data to reach any conclusions about the relative safety of splitting vs not.
What the study shows is that riders who were lane-splitting at the time of an accident sustain fewer injuries than those who weren't. It mentions some differences between the two groups -- lane-splitters are more likely to be commuting and have better safety gear -- but glosses over how that impacts the injury rates.
I don't have another study to cite but motorcyclists who commute are likely a much less injured group than recreational riders. For a host of reasons, from not engaging in as much risky behavior -- who wants to die on the way to work? -- to being more skilled on average due to experience.
Re: Lethal memory fail: Why drivers see, and then forget motorcyclists
#60As a motorcyclist and defensive driver I find these kind of articles worrying, because they imply that riders are rolling around trusting other people not to hit them. The first rule of motorcycling, that you accept when you swing your leg over a bike, is that no matter whose fault any collision might be, it is your responsibility and yours alone to anticipate and avoid all such incidents. "But he pulled out in front…
It’s interesting to me: As a fellow motorcyclist, I agree with your philosophy wholeheartedly. But most bicyclists (who are arguably at more risk from a car/truck than a motorcyclist) disagree with this just as wholeheartedly. I seriously wonder why this dichotomy exists, especially as bicycles are gaining electric motors capable of propelling them at higher and higher speeds.
Most of what I understand about motorcycle safety was taught by various MSF courses. In many states, the MSF is the most direct way to get your motorcycle endorsement. This makes them fairly sticky in the community.