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How Apple Kills Indie Developers

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Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#111

Post by dragonwriter »

toasterlovin wrote: post #107
dragonwriter wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A local municipality is a government, which is supposed to (and usually legally obligated to) act for the betterment of its constituents Governments are usually not legally bound to act for the betterment of their constituents, and even if they were that would usually be meaningless as they usually are the entity that interprets the collective interest of their constituents. > Apple is a private company and, thus,…

I guess I didn't make my point very well. Which was: of course you can take your municipal government to court over how they dole out stalls at a market they run. An important principle in most modern legal systems is that various entities are treated fairly by the government. But no such principle exists in a private marketplace, which was created by a private entity to further its own ends (with the usual caveats a…

> Which was: of course you can take your municipal government to court over how they dole out stalls at a market they run.

In the US, sure, you could sue them because the manner they did that:

(1) discriminated on a basis prohibited to government under the Constitution,

(2) violated some binding regulation of a superior level of government,

(3) violated a promise made by that government that you reasonably relied on to your disadvantage.

Similarly, for a private entity doling out market stalls, you could sue for the same reasons, except #1 becomes “...on a basis prohibited to businesses open to the public”. And with a private entity, there's no issue of whether governmental immunity applies to your suit.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#112

Post by filleduchaos »

chryton wrote: post #109
toasterlovin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the developer mentions paying the $99 a year. That's not trivial. If you're running a business, that is very much trivial. I just paid my bank $40 to send a wire transfer to a vendor. It costs $39.99 per month to be able to make apps for Amazon sellers. Out here in the real world stuff and services cost money.

> Out here in the real world stuff and services cost money. ... which means the amount of money spent is _not_ trivial. If you are not policing your costs, regardless of how "trivial," then how are you optimizing your profit? A "cost of doing business" is still a cost on your books. $100 is trivial for a larger business but if you're talking someone small or a side hustle, $100 is something that is not trivial.

I say this as someone who lives in a developing country: if you cannot afford $100 _a year_ in costs, then Apple and app development in general are very much the least of your worries.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#113

Post by calcifer »

mikepurvis wrote: post #77
calcifer wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why it this all apple's fault? I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a privacy policy. Apple didn't say this was a privacy policy issue, why do you think it is? > One fix, developers should be able to pay $500 to [...] So by default if Apple rejects you and refuses to give a reason, you should have the "opportunity" of paying them $500 so Apple tells you what Apple already knows? What a deal!

I mean, the other way to look at this is the baseline cost for a supported enterprise developer account is $500 (or $5000, or whatever), and it's a discount to $99 if you happen not to need the extra hand-holding.

> extra hand-holding

If "we are going to kick you out and tell you why" is extra hand-holding in whatever bizarre world you live in, sure.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#114

Post by cududa »

randomdata wrote: post #90
jen729w wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare selling on the App Store to selling physical goods in a real store. Can anyone just make a thing at home and take it to their local Walmart and demand they sell it? Of course not. There are quality controls. There are things you have to learn first — that your packaging needs to be in a suitable box, that you need to get a barcode, that it needs legal notices, etc. If Walmart offered a “seller’s course” where…

It also falls apart in that Walmart allows you to sell your useless thing at other retailers or even flea markets and garage sales. Apple only allows you to sell your useless iOS apps on their App Store.

Sell it on android play

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#115

Post by coldtea »

Jyaif wrote: post #81
coldtea wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly "serves" them? Just in 2018, the App Store paid developers $34 billion from their sales. https://fortune.com/2019/01/28/apple-app-store-developer-ear...

An other way of seing things is that developers paid Apple $10+ billion in 2018.

Which they wouldn't had made had the platform not existed...

...and which they don't as easily make on the Android platform...

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#116

Post by scarface74 »

sergiosgc wrote: post #56
gridlockd wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Crapware/Malware exists even in locked down store monopolies, therefore we need to open up the platform even more ? What do you want, alternative app stores? The ability to sideload apps? Android has all that, it's still an awful platform to develop for. Let's say this guy could go the alternative route and publish elsewhere. He'd still have a problem because most of…

The idea is that you give the store operator a monopoly, with the downsides this implies(1), in exchange for security. If security is absent, there's no justification for accepting a monopoly. (1) For example, the store keeping an absurd share of app revenues. About 30%, isn't it?

Absurd compared to retail stores of old that kept 50-60%? Absurd compared to carriers who kept 70% in the pre smart phone area when distributing J2ME apps?

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#117

Post by scarface74 »

the8472 wrote: post #74
bilbo0s wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with all the things you say about trying to get more freedom on mobile platforms, but let's not be disingenuous. Allowing more freedom on app stores absolutely increases viruses and malware that can get onto phones. If we aren't honest about that then we won't be out brainstorming methods of avoiding that kind of cesspool.

Is that brainstorming a prerequisite to letting people be adult humans with free will who can, after a few warnings, be allowed to make their own choices? We allow people to drink, gamble, join ponzi schemes or self-harm. The non-negotiable nannying around app stores seems infantilizing in comparison. To answer your question, yes the risks are real. But so is life.

How has that worked out in the PC era? You’ve never had to remove random crapware from your parents computer?

Even now, it’s a lot easier to convince me to install random crap on my iOS device than computers knowing that the app can’t do any damage and the permissions are clear.

I know exactly what those other things you list can do. I have no idea what a random app will do on my computer.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#118

Post by scarface74 »

chryton wrote: post #109
toasterlovin wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the developer mentions paying the $99 a year. That's not trivial. If you're running a business, that is very much trivial. I just paid my bank $40 to send a wire transfer to a vendor. It costs $39.99 per month to be able to make apps for Amazon sellers. Out here in the real world stuff and services cost money.

> Out here in the real world stuff and services cost money. ... which means the amount of money spent is _not_ trivial. If you are not policing your costs, regardless of how "trivial," then how are you optimizing your profit? A "cost of doing business" is still a cost on your books. $100 is trivial for a larger business but if you're talking someone small or a side hustle, $100 is something that is not trivial.

I pay more than a $100 a year to JetBrains. $100 a year is trivial for a side hustle. If you’re developing for iOS, you’re already spending money on Macs, at least one iPhone, probably an iPad and maybe a watch.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#119

Post by scarface74 »

antoinevg wrote: post #25

Antitrust moves slow but when it comes it hits like the proverbial hammer smashing a wall-sized tv screen. Remember when all the Microsofties were gloating about how it was never gonna happen to them? Pepperidge farm remembers…

And for all intents and purposes it was a minor slap on the wrist and Microsoft to this day still is one of the rare companies whose market cap hovers around 1 trillion.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#120

Post by philpem »

cududa wrote: post #114
randomdata wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also falls apart in that Walmart allows you to sell your useless thing at other retailers or even flea markets and garage sales. Apple only allows you to sell your useless iOS apps on their App Store.

Sell it on android play

How do you sell an iOS application on an Android-specific app store?

If you're proposing they port the app to Android -- that's a lot of work. And the Android store is packed with even more junkware than the Apple one.

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