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How Apple Kills Indie Developers

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Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#31

Post by benologist »

mikepurvis wrote: post #5
ropiwqefjnpoa wrote: post #2

Any idea why they would want to kill your notes app? There are already a bunch out there and Notes has been around forever.

I don't think they have to want to do anything. This is just the reality of a faceless bureaucracy which isn't accountable to anyone or anything. To the dev, their app is their livelihood— to Apple, it's just a ticket in a queue somewhere.

There is nobody advocating for developers nor monitoring or reacting to abusive behavior except scattered competition and consumer rights bureaus struggling to impose fairness within their limited domain.

Companies exploit this for profit in many unethical ways. For instance Apple didn't voluntarily print new marketing material for the EU they advertised a one year warranty illegally instead to upsell Apple Care and went to court multiple times for it. Steam had to be sued to provide refunds. Google had to be sued to refund $75 million in funds they claimed they were returning because of fraud.

Business as usual is basically a dark pattern - do whatever they want because it will take years if ever for anyone to challenge them meanwhile there is zero oversight.

https://apple.slashdot.org/story/12/04/02/123207/apple-is-fo...

https://variety.com/2018/gaming/news/valve-australia-fine-12...

https://www.wsj.com/articles/google-to-refund-advertisers-af...

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#32

Post by 9HZZRfNlpR »

rimliu wrote: post #18
gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

Outside of the stores you are relying on search engines. Now tell me how SEO is not "an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one".

Google ranks things better, at least compared to the play store. Ads and its side effects make apps and the stores total freakshow. You can't install any app for kids by using simple search without dark patterned ads flying at you and your kid by accident opening them. Some poor soul is paying for this so called engagement too.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#33

Post by YooLi »

Feels like there are some pieces missing from the story.

This isn't a "we won't approve your app because it's not following the app guidelines" rejection or an app stuck in review purgatory. (I once had an Apple TV app stuck in review for 10 weeks before it magically was approved with no changes from me.) This is a "your account did something it shouldn't have done" flag. The whole account is suspended for an alleged infraction of "App Store Review Guidelines’ Developer Code of Conduct". Did your account do contract work on other "spammy" apps or similar? Even if you worked on completely different apps, it's not unprecedented for Apple to just blow the whole account up if it's in any way tied.

Edit to add Code of Conduct:

5.6 Developer Code of Conduct Please treat everyone with respect, whether in your responses to App Store reviews, customer support requests, or when communicating with Apple, including your responses in Resolution Center. Do not engage in harassment of any kind, discriminatory practices, intimidation, bullying, and don’t encourage others to engage in any of the above. Customer trust is the cornerstone of the App Store’s success. Apps should never prey on users or attempt to rip-off customers, trick them into making unwanted purchases, force them to share unnecessary data, raise prices in a tricky manner, charge for features or content that are not delivered, or engage in any other manipulative practices within or outside of the app.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#34

Post by ihuman »

privateSFacct wrote: post #26

For some perspective on apple "killing" developers. Apple is FLOODED with copycat crap apps - 10 different names etc etc. Seriously, the play store used to have lots more of these - maybe now cleaned up. But saying that apple needs to encourage this crap is silly. This is what was killing the play store. The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes When someone…

> The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes

The iOS version links to that page, but the mac appstore listing [0] links to a different website [1] with an actual privacy policy.

[0] https://apps.apple.com/app/fsnotes/id1277179284

[1] https://fsnot.es/pp.html

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#35

Post by xnyan »

FpUser wrote: post #23

I really feel for those who fall victim of this huge companies that under various disguises trying to get full control of people's lives and business. I am lucky that so far I have managed to avoid all this walled garden madness. All of my products so far are either desktop based or browser based and servers are hosted on my own/rented hardware, no cloudy stuff. Other than paying for security certificates every now a…

"Frankly I do not understand why do people submit to this kind of stewardship" Uhhh:

"I am lucky that so far I have managed to avoid all this walled garden madness"

"All of my products..."

"...desktop based or browser based and servers are hosted on my own/rented hardware"

This is like a professional chef saying they don't understand why everyone does not make their own souffles. People want the same services you want, but are not software developers. I have to assume you're being very facetious?

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#36

Post by spiderfarmer »

dlojudice wrote: post #6

I just think its weird when someone blames Apple for being so much in control of their app store

Our local village has a market, every thursday. The municipality (don't know if I say this correctly) controls who can have stalls there.

It's hard to get permits, so sellers are depending on that one permit for at least 20% of their revenue, even more if they deal with the same municipality in different villages. In theory they could go to other markets, but in practice it can take years to get a good position elsewhere. Too long to survive.

If the local municipality decided to ban a seller, for reasons unknown, the seller can get a judge involved who will quickly say if the seller was legitimately banned.

Justice prevails.

With the App store? Not so much. The arrogance of the tech giants knows no bounds, their legal budgets are endless and judges will never fully grasp the similiarities between the online and offline world.

App developers are no different from market sellers, they are just dealing with the worst marketplace model ever.

I am not even an App developer, but I really think this should change. It's just not healthy for an economy to have a gatekeeper that has the power to just bankrupt a developer, be it accidentally or on purpose.

Banning accounts without detailed reasoning while "investigating" for a long period of time should be seen as criminal behavior.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#37

Post by gridlockd »

gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Crapware/Malware exists even in locked down store monopolies, therefore we need to open up the platform even more? What do you want, alternative app stores? The ability to sideload apps? Android has all that, it's still an awful platform to develop for.

Let's say this guy could go the alternative route and publish elsewhere. He'd still have a problem because most of the traffic goes through the Appstore, not some other venue.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#38

Post by fluder »

privateSFacct wrote: post #26

For some perspective on apple "killing" developers. Apple is FLOODED with copycat crap apps - 10 different names etc etc. Seriously, the play store used to have lots more of these - maybe now cleaned up. But saying that apple needs to encourage this crap is silly. This is what was killing the play store. The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes When someone…

No problem, if this crap (really no), why not delete this? Main point in post — 3 month investigation is not normal.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#39

Post by FpUser »

d-d wrote: post #27
FpUser wrote: post #23

I really feel for those who fall victim of this huge companies that under various disguises trying to get full control of people's lives and business. I am lucky that so far I have managed to avoid all this walled garden madness. All of my products so far are either desktop based or browser based and servers are hosted on my own/rented hardware, no cloudy stuff. Other than paying for security certificates every now a…

Yeah, I don't get it. Why hand years of your life over to a bunch of greasy shysters? I'm looking forward to the day these oversized bully companies become irrelevant. That day will come. The amount of innovation and progress they're holding back from humanity is criminal. Can't last.

To be fair they bring a boatloads of innovation. It is how said innovations are being used. As for "their day will come": so far I only see the opposite. That "your life as a service" pattern spreads like a cancer. Not sure why people are buying into it.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#40

Post by calcifer »

privateSFacct wrote: post #26

For some perspective on apple "killing" developers. Apple is FLOODED with copycat crap apps - 10 different names etc etc. Seriously, the play store used to have lots more of these - maybe now cleaned up. But saying that apple needs to encourage this crap is silly. This is what was killing the play store. The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes When someone…

> Why it this all apple's fault? I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a privacy policy.

Apple didn't say this was a privacy policy issue, why do you think it is?

> One fix, developers should be able to pay $500 to [...]

So by default if Apple rejects you and refuses to give a reason, you should have the "opportunity" of paying them $500 so Apple tells you what Apple already knows? What a deal!

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