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How Apple Kills Indie Developers

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Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#51

Post by matwood »

YooLi wrote: post #33

Feels like there are some pieces missing from the story. This isn't a "we won't approve your app because it's not following the app guidelines" rejection or an app stuck in review purgatory. (I once had an Apple TV app stuck in review for 10 weeks before it magically was approved with no changes from me.) This is a "your account did something it shouldn't have done" flag. The whole account is suspended for an alleged…

> Did your account do contract work on other "spammy" apps or similar?

This is a good question. I've seen the stories before where a person who had normal apps did contract work on scam apps in the same account, and then wonder why their account ends up in review.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#52

Post by fluder »

matwood wrote: post #30
xenospn wrote: post #20

This is very odd. I’ve always found interactions with the Apple App Store review people to be very smooth and they always tell me exactly what they’re looking for while reviewing my app. If they can’t find it, i get back to them and they finish their review in under an hour. I get the feeling someone isn’t telling the whole story here.

Same. I do feeling like something is missing in this story.

I'm just a developer, not a lawyer, maybe I was wrong, but I don’t know where.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#53

Post by xnyan »

cma wrote: post #29
ancorevard wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"They aren't good for consumers either." Can't speak for the Google store, but as a consumer, I definitely trust Apple's apps more than random developers' apps. So in Apple's case, I always appreciate when they provide another service/app that I can use, because their values on privacy aligns with mine and they have built up a trust relationship with me.

> Can't speak for the Google store, but as a consumer, I definitely trust Apple's apps more than random developers' apps. Couldn't you still have that without banning off-store apps?

By default, you can't side-load applications on any android phone I've used in the last 5 years. It's not hard to turn it off, but it's also not obvious how and a consumer would have to be taken step-by-step on how to do it, and so the default Google experience is the same as Apple, sans the critical difference of much much more stringent app review on iOS.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#54

Post by css »

Back in 2013/14 I got into it with the approval team [0] but I was at least able to get responses and feedback. I am really surprised they outright ignore devs now, especially since they have significantly scaled up review team sizes [1].

I also don't see how this is related to apple "killing" indie devs; there are tons of notes apps in the store, this one is probably just breaking some guideline.

[0] https://chrissardegna.com/blog/posts/get-an-app-approved/

[1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-05-28/why-did-a...

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#55

Post by [deleted] »

kemayo wrote: post #15

Glancing at the app store review guidelines[1], I will note that this app's listing[2] is low-key violating the privacy policy requirement by just linking to the github repo for the app, which has no actual privacy policy listed. I have no idea if that's enough for Apple to do a suspension-and-review process like this, but it's definitely a violation. That said, I think they should include at least some hint in their…

[deleted]

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#56

Post by sergiosgc »

gridlockd wrote: post #37
gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Crapware/Malware exists even in locked down store monopolies, therefore we need to open up the platform even more ? What do you want, alternative app stores? The ability to sideload apps? Android has all that, it's still an awful platform to develop for. Let's say this guy could go the alternative route and publish elsewhere. He'd still have a problem because most of…

The idea is that you give the store operator a monopoly, with the downsides this implies(1), in exchange for security. If security is absent, there's no justification for accepting a monopoly.

(1) For example, the store keeping an absurd share of app revenues. About 30%, isn't it?

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#57

Post by dsalzman »

It's really ironic to read these articles about the Apple App Store hurting indie developers. It is one of the main reasons that job exists! Apple spent large amounts of capital and R&D to deploy a hardware platform used by BILLIONS of people all of the world! And you can tap into and leverage that platform for $99 a year and 30% of app sales! That's insane. Sometimes it's healthy to stop and look back and understand the change and privilege that we as software developers have received in the very recent past.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#58

Post by dheera »

cumwolf wrote: post #17

The AppStore experience is miserable. It sucks the life out of you as an independent developer when they reject your app for vague reasons and you know the turn around to get your app reviewed again is going to be another 1-3 days. The quality control is highly variant, sometimes my application goes through intense scrutiny, sometimes it gets rejected purely for user error on their reviewing end and other times it ge…

I don't use any Apple products for partially this reason. I really wonder why there hasn't yet been a class action lawsuit about this. Considering the market share of devices they control, they should not be giving an edge to the likes of Tencent and Facebook to do whatever they want while indie developers get screwed over.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#59

Post by gcheong »

gridlockd wrote: post #37
gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

I'm not sure I understand this line of reasoning. Crapware/Malware exists even in locked down store monopolies, therefore we need to open up the platform even more ? What do you want, alternative app stores? The ability to sideload apps? Android has all that, it's still an awful platform to develop for. Let's say this guy could go the alternative route and publish elsewhere. He'd still have a problem because most of…

I don't know if opening the platform more or having alternative app stores is the answer, but Apple should have some responsibility to give the developer a clear indication of what triggered the investigation, what they believe the issue to be is and a reasonable expectation of how long the investigation will take with a human that is responsible that you can communicate with directly. I'm not usually in favor of more regulation but I think Apple, Google, etc. have been getting away with this behavior to the detriment of the developers and their customers for far too long.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#60

Post by jen729w »

privateSFacct wrote: post #26

For some perspective on apple "killing" developers. Apple is FLOODED with copycat crap apps - 10 different names etc etc. Seriously, the play store used to have lots more of these - maybe now cleaned up. But saying that apple needs to encourage this crap is silly. This is what was killing the play store. The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes When someone…

Compare selling on the App Store to selling physical goods in a real store. Can anyone just make a thing at home and take it to their local Walmart and demand they sell it? Of course not. There are quality controls. There are things you have to learn first — that your packaging needs to be in a suitable box, that you need to get a barcode, that it needs legal notices, etc.

If Walmart offered a “seller’s course” where you could go and learn how to do these things nobody would bat an eyelid. They’d probably be praised for it.

Here’s where my analogy falls apart, of course. Walmart still won’t list for sale the crappy useless thing that you made at home. Apple will.

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