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How Apple Kills Indie Developers

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Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#71

Post by soylentcola »

xnyan wrote: post #53
cma wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can't speak for the Google store, but as a consumer, I definitely trust Apple's apps more than random developers' apps. Couldn't you still have that without banning off-store apps?

By default, you can't side-load applications on any android phone I've used in the last 5 years. It's not hard to turn it off, but it's also not obvious how and a consumer would have to be taken step-by-step on how to do it, and so the default Google experience is the same as Apple, sans the critical difference of much much more stringent app review on iOS.

Not sure when it was last updated, but for at least the past few years, any time I tap to install an application I got from a dev's site or whatever, it basically says "hey, you haven't given permission to install apps from this source. doing so might not be safe, etc." with a link/button to take you to the menu with the relevant toggle.

As an end user, it's akin to typing my root password to clicking "accept" on Windows UAC. I can still install it just fine, but I need to give permission and check the box accepting responsibility.

Whether that's enough to protect someone from doing something unwise can be debated, but it's not something you'd really need instructions for.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#72

Post by GeneralTspoon »

cumwolf wrote: post #17

The AppStore experience is miserable. It sucks the life out of you as an independent developer when they reject your app for vague reasons and you know the turn around to get your app reviewed again is going to be another 1-3 days. The quality control is highly variant, sometimes my application goes through intense scrutiny, sometimes it gets rejected purely for user error on their reviewing end and other times it ge…

Google Play is arguably as bad - just in different ways. At least an actual human reviews your apps at Apple, and they do sometimes point out specific-ish information.

At Google, since it's all bots, a random algorithm change can remove your app from the store overnight. With Apple, if you get through the review process you're usually safe. Not to mention random bans by association (e.g. if a developer at your company has previously had a banned account, then the company account could be banned due to association with this developer - there are a few horror stories out there about this).

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#74

Post by the8472 »

bilbo0s wrote: post #16
gameswithgo wrote: post #3

The google store operates in the same way. Application developers need to band together and quit accepting these locked down store monopolies. They aren't good for consumers either. The usual justification is that these stores reduce fruad and malware, but I have found the opposite to be true. Having a single store leads to an aggressive race to the bottom, where gaming the store ranking is priority one. Last two tim…

I agree with all the things you say about trying to get more freedom on mobile platforms, but let's not be disingenuous. Allowing more freedom on app stores absolutely increases viruses and malware that can get onto phones. If we aren't honest about that then we won't be out brainstorming methods of avoiding that kind of cesspool.

Is that brainstorming a prerequisite to letting people be adult humans with free will who can, after a few warnings, be allowed to make their own choices?

We allow people to drink, gamble, join ponzi schemes or self-harm. The non-negotiable nannying around app stores seems infantilizing in comparison.

To answer your question, yes the risks are real. But so is life.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#75

Post by phendrenad2 »

If Apple put the care and attention into app store reviews that they put into their iPhone/iPad hardware and iOS, they would have actual humans review everything. But the "race to the bottom" mentality has taken root, and if left unchecked will spread to the rest of the company IMO.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#76

Post by spiderfarmer »

toasterlovin wrote: post #70
spiderfarmer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our local village has a market, every thursday. The municipality (don't know if I say this correctly) controls who can have stalls there. It's hard to get permits, so sellers are depending on that one permit for at least 20% of their revenue, even more if they deal with the same municipality in different villages. In theory they could go to other markets, but in practice it can take years to get a good position elsew…

> If the local municipality decided to ban a seller, for reasons unknown, the seller can get a judge involved who will quickly say if the seller was legitimately banned. C'mon. A local municipality is a government, which is supposed to (and usually legally obligated to) act for the betterment of its constituents. Apple is a private company and, thus, not bound by any such obligation.

I know that this is the American way, but in my view private companies should not be able to do "whatever the hell they want".

You said it yourself: "A government is supposed to (and usually legally obligated to) act for the betterment of its constituents"

So, government: Make new rules for the unicorn tech giants. Setting new rules for these behemoths helps small businesses and therefore your constituents. You make the rules. We need them.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#77

Post by mikepurvis »

calcifer wrote: post #40
privateSFacct wrote: post #26

For some perspective on apple "killing" developers. Apple is FLOODED with copycat crap apps - 10 different names etc etc. Seriously, the play store used to have lots more of these - maybe now cleaned up. But saying that apple needs to encourage this crap is silly. This is what was killing the play store. The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes When someone…

> Why it this all apple's fault? I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a privacy policy. Apple didn't say this was a privacy policy issue, why do you think it is? > One fix, developers should be able to pay $500 to [...] So by default if Apple rejects you and refuses to give a reason, you should have the "opportunity" of paying them $500 so Apple tells you what Apple already knows? What a deal!

I mean, the other way to look at this is the baseline cost for a supported enterprise developer account is $500 (or $5000, or whatever), and it's a discount to $99 if you happen not to need the extra hand-holding.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#78

Post by dragonwriter »

toasterlovin wrote: post #70
spiderfarmer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our local village has a market, every thursday. The municipality (don't know if I say this correctly) controls who can have stalls there. It's hard to get permits, so sellers are depending on that one permit for at least 20% of their revenue, even more if they deal with the same municipality in different villages. In theory they could go to other markets, but in practice it can take years to get a good position elsew…

> If the local municipality decided to ban a seller, for reasons unknown, the seller can get a judge involved who will quickly say if the seller was legitimately banned. C'mon. A local municipality is a government, which is supposed to (and usually legally obligated to) act for the betterment of its constituents. Apple is a private company and, thus, not bound by any such obligation.

> A local municipality is a government, which is supposed to (and usually legally obligated to) act for the betterment of its constituents

Governments are usually not legally bound to act for the betterment of their constituents, and even if they were that would usually be meaningless as they usually are the entity that interprets the collective interest of their constituents.

> Apple is a private company and, thus, not bound by any such obligation.

Corporations, unlike governments, are actually legally bound, to an extent, to serve the interests of their constituents (but their constituents are the stockholders, not the public.)

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#79

Post by urda »

Each time I've seen this type of article make the news cycle it's as follows:

- Apple does X against small / indie developer! I know it makes for a great headline.

- Indie developer did no harm, rights a heart tugger of a blog post.

- Post reaches front of HN, reddit, etc ...

- Further digging shows not only did the indie developer not follow guidelines, they blatantly ignored them.

- Indie dev is exposed for not following Apple guidelines.

The way the issue is written makes it seem a considerable amount of information is being hidden. I'm going to wait until the dust settles before I take any sides.

Re: How Apple Kills Indie Developers

#80

Post by maehwasu »

jen729w wrote: post #60
privateSFacct wrote: post #26

For some perspective on apple "killing" developers. Apple is FLOODED with copycat crap apps - 10 different names etc etc. Seriously, the play store used to have lots more of these - maybe now cleaned up. But saying that apple needs to encourage this crap is silly. This is what was killing the play store. The guy complaining here has his "privacy policy" as follows: https://github.com/glushchenko/fsnotes When someone…

Compare selling on the App Store to selling physical goods in a real store. Can anyone just make a thing at home and take it to their local Walmart and demand they sell it? Of course not. There are quality controls. There are things you have to learn first — that your packaging needs to be in a suitable box, that you need to get a barcode, that it needs legal notices, etc. If Walmart offered a “seller’s course” where…

Of course, once you start selling the item and build a business around it, retailers are less likely to randomly yank you with no recourse or real feedback.

It’s almost like physical retail and software are different. Crazy!

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