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EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

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Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#51

Post by nolok »

jussij wrote: post #37
nolok wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EASA finds real major issue that the FAA didn’t find then the FAA being the world validation office for Boeing planes is over. But I don’t think this will happen, the FAA seem to have realized how angry the rest of the world agencies are. 350 dead because they screwed up, and their first reaction was to say it was the dead pilots fault...

The FAA lost a big chunk of it's credibility in the way they handled the fist MAX 737 crash. The fact Ethiopa insisted on sending the flight records for their MAX 737 crash to Europe and not to the US shows some serious loss of trust in the FAA had occurred. And that was not helped when the USA was the last country to ground the aircraft.

Well when they made that decision every country in the top 10 by air traffic volume had banned the plane except for the USA and Japan (who basically does what the FAA says on such issues), and the FAA and Boeing were still saying it was pilot error and basically blaming the dead people. I don’t see how any self respecting country could have trusted them with the black box in those conditions

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#52

Post by StreamBright »

cadence- wrote: post #27

Americans have been dismantling and weakening their regulatory bodies for quite a while now. The idea is that this will unshackle big corporations and allow them to innovate faster. This sounds like a great idea, until you realize that this “innovation” is most often about increasing profits. And the quality of the product is often sacrificed to increase profits. Just look at what is happening to telecommunication se…

I think you slightly confuse regulations and enforcement.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#53

Post by ceejayoz »

StreamBright wrote: post #52
cadence- wrote: post #27

Americans have been dismantling and weakening their regulatory bodies for quite a while now. The idea is that this will unshackle big corporations and allow them to innovate faster. This sounds like a great idea, until you realize that this “innovation” is most often about increasing profits. And the quality of the product is often sacrificed to increase profits. Just look at what is happening to telecommunication se…

I think you slightly confuse regulations and enforcement.

Effective regulation requires effective enforcement of regulations.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#54

Post by notimetorelax »

nolok wrote: post #13
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It shouldn't have taken the intervention of the President for them to do their job. That's your takeaway of what happened? My takeaway is that the president 'intervened' only after it was clear that the combined Boeing/FAA/US position became untenable after other regions local air authorities and airlines declared the plane unfit to fly. Trump threw the FAA under the bus to make himself look good, but the weeks bef…

Agreed, they didn’t do it when the risk became clear, they didn’t do it after several big European countries banned it, they only changed their position once the ban was moved at the entire EU level. By that point they were getting their thunder stolen by the EASA and it felt protecting themselves was a much bigger motivation than protecting the passengers for who they actually work for.

I wonder how much pressure airline companies put on FAA to ground the plane as I remember people getting very concerned about flying on that plane.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#56

Post by vinay427 »

nolok wrote: post #51
jussij wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The FAA lost a big chunk of it's credibility in the way they handled the fist MAX 737 crash. The fact Ethiopa insisted on sending the flight records for their MAX 737 crash to Europe and not to the US shows some serious loss of trust in the FAA had occurred. And that was not helped when the USA was the last country to ground the aircraft.

Well when they made that decision every country in the top 10 by air traffic volume had banned the plane except for the USA and Japan (who basically does what the FAA says on such issues), and the FAA and Boeing were still saying it was pilot error and basically blaming the dead people. I don’t see how any self respecting country could have trusted them with the black box in those conditions

> basically blaming the dead people

This is strange wording to me. There's nothing inherently wrong with blaming "dead people" for something, because many accidents caused by user error result in death of the user. However, in this situation, it certainly seems rather hasty and inappropriate.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#57

Post by vinay427 »

AmVess wrote: post #33
jwr wrote: post #24

This is excellent news. The FAA has lots its credibility by rubber-stamping whatever Boeing said in recent years. This will both mean an independent review (and re-certification of what is a effectively different airplane) and additional pressure on the FAA to actually do its job.

Not recent years. Decades. FAA has been under regulatory capture by Boeing for decades. The world ignoring anything the FAA has to say about anything is a stance that's long overdue.

> FAA has been under regulatory capture by Boeing for decades.

> The world ignoring anything the FAA has to say about anything is a stance that's long overdue.

I don't see how the second part follows from the first. Can you elaborate on how regulatory capture by Boeing affects FAA regulations on everything they do?

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#58

Post by vinay427 »

neuronic wrote: post #23
nolok wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EASA finds real major issue that the FAA didn’t find then the FAA being the world validation office for Boeing planes is over. But I don’t think this will happen, the FAA seem to have realized how angry the rest of the world agencies are. 350 dead because they screwed up, and their first reaction was to say it was the dead pilots fault...

The era of American exceptionalism is coming to an end and Americans are screeching from the pain. As technology leader and economic powerhouse, the US has left its cultural, political and financial footprint in Europe in the past decades but the extent of that influence is now downgraded. And the reason is inner decay. When the wall came down in Eastern Germany, we tuned into Knight Rider and MacGyver. The A-Team an…

> In the US, I was billed $800 for 3 stitches when I cut my thumb (deeply) and I got lucky because university ambulance transported me.

I was billed about that much, also in "Europe", when an ambulance was called, no treatment was performed on me, and I wasn't even transported by the ambulance. This was in Switzerland despite having health insurance. There's no general European health insurance system.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#59

Post by Retric »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #25
appleflaxen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whose attrition rate? The EASA? Boeing?

Boeing I guess, maybe FAA. Why would ESA loose people from this?

EASA rubber stamping the FAA’s rubber stamping of Boeing is still EASA making a mistake just as much as it’s the FAA’s mistake. This has become a major public issue, bet the problems started when the aircraft entered service.

Re: EASA Insists on Testing Boeing 737 Max Itself Before Lifting Ban

#60

Post by Zenbit_UX »

neuronic wrote: post #23
nolok wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EASA finds real major issue that the FAA didn’t find then the FAA being the world validation office for Boeing planes is over. But I don’t think this will happen, the FAA seem to have realized how angry the rest of the world agencies are. 350 dead because they screwed up, and their first reaction was to say it was the dead pilots fault...

The era of American exceptionalism is coming to an end and Americans are screeching from the pain. As technology leader and economic powerhouse, the US has left its cultural, political and financial footprint in Europe in the past decades but the extent of that influence is now downgraded. And the reason is inner decay. When the wall came down in Eastern Germany, we tuned into Knight Rider and MacGyver. The A-Team an…

This has been the quiet opinion of almost every Canadian for decades, we have a front seat view of our neighbors and its sad to see.
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