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A Walk in Hong Kong

idlewords.com

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Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#151

Post by Quiark »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #133
idlewords wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, at a mass protest you're going to get all kinds of people. The five demands represent a broad consensus across a very large slice of Hong Kong society. You can get a lot of attention bringing a foreign flag to a protest, but as Hong Kongers know it is a very small contingent of people who do it. One of them is a well-known, tiny, sweet old lady who got attacked by police last weekend.

They've effectively won on the extradition bill, which realistically is the most they could get. Violence, disruption, and foreign flags might be from a minority but they have destroyed any sympathy the mainland opinion may have had towards the movement (and there was sympathy) and I think that they actually help the hardliners in Beijing.

The bill was not withdrawn. It is likely that some of the violence was from undercover cops. But yes, optics matter, that's why they apologised after the airport.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#152

Post by empath75 »

smallnamespace wrote: post #106
spyckie2 wrote: post #19

This piece is quite accurate - it really makes you feel like you're in Hong Kong during the protests. References aside, as a US citizen in Hong Kong there are some things that I respect immensely and some things that really get on my nerves about HK. I greatly respect the people and the cause. It reminds me of that one poem - > Do not go gentle into that good night. > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. The pe…

This is a silly analysis because the conflict is fundamental. China wants to integrate Hong Kong. The protestors want independence. Neither side really wants an indefinite half-hearted autonomy, although the protestors are pushing to preserve it for as long as possible. Your very reaction shows where your sympathies lie, which is very laudable, but are you willing to engage in 'conflict resolution' over your own core…

In fact the first chapter of From Dictatorship To Democracy warns against negotiations too early in the process. You have to be in position of power first, then negotiate.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#153

Post by empath75 »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #133
idlewords wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By definition, at a mass protest you're going to get all kinds of people. The five demands represent a broad consensus across a very large slice of Hong Kong society. You can get a lot of attention bringing a foreign flag to a protest, but as Hong Kongers know it is a very small contingent of people who do it. One of them is a well-known, tiny, sweet old lady who got attacked by police last weekend.

They've effectively won on the extradition bill, which realistically is the most they could get. Violence, disruption, and foreign flags might be from a minority but they have destroyed any sympathy the mainland opinion may have had towards the movement (and there was sympathy) and I think that they actually help the hardliners in Beijing.

Who is to say what they can get. No sense giving up before you’ve started fighting.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#154

Post by mytailorisrich »

Quiark wrote: post #151
mytailorisrich wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've effectively won on the extradition bill, which realistically is the most they could get. Violence, disruption, and foreign flags might be from a minority but they have destroyed any sympathy the mainland opinion may have had towards the movement (and there was sympathy) and I think that they actually help the hardliners in Beijing.

The bill was not withdrawn. It is likely that some of the violence was from undercover cops. But yes, optics matter, that's why they apologised after the airport.

> The bill was not withdrawn.

Same difference, really...

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#155

Post by nathanyukai »

ekc wrote: post #91
nathanyukai wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Chinese media the violent part of the protest is what they mostly talks about, although I do believe most protestors are peaceful. Funny enough most western media don't talk about that at all, despite that they broke into the legislative assembley and beaten people from mainland China, and HK police of course. Isn't media great these days

Ignoring that police shot a medical volunteer's eye out.

It's hard to do that delibrately right? I think this is an accident(I could be wrong). On the other hand, in the Chinese media they report some protestor bite a police officer's finger off.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#156

Post by empath75 »

sammorrowdrums wrote: post #55
prawn wrote: post #8

One of Maciej's best IMO. Informative and very entertaining. I was struck in particular by: "I can’t get over the oddness of the situation. In one direction is bedlam, in the other complete normalcy, separated by a few hundred meters." In 2003, I was walking in Madrid one evening with my girlfriend when war protesters became engaged in some sort of battle with riot police. We had wandered amongst protesters up one st…

I'm from Belfast. This is exactly the case. There is almost never total constant omnipresent conflict. Nor does it spread randomly. Almost all conflict is highly localised at any given moment. I imagine even during the war in Afghanistan there were plenty of farmers and families going about their busines while Taliban, local and international forces were live firing mere miles away. Even soldiers cannot sustain a con…

People went out to picnic on the hills to watch one of the first battles of the Civil War in Virginia.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#157

Post by roca »

surfmike wrote: post #148
roca wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Norway is a petro-economy. That doesn't really work as a role model for countries that don't have vast easily-exploited natural resources. Lucky for Norway that they've transitioned out of petroleum before the climate disaster comes due.

They have?

Yeah OK, it's declining, but they aren't out of it yet. https://www.norskpetroleum.no/en/production-and-exports/expo...

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#158

Post by empath75 »

xkgt wrote: post #109
TASMebWdhWc9NeA wrote: post #51

I am in Verona (Italy) at this time, and I'm in a hotel where some tourists from Shanghai happen to be as well. I'm alone, so I hang out in the lobby a lot. I just engaged in some small talk with some of those tourists, and the discussion somehow shifted to the Hong Kong protests. Basically what they sad is that western culture in Hong Kong clashes with the chinese culture. They don't seem to say that the chinese way…

//Basically what they sad is that western culture in Hong Kong clashes with the Chinese culture. This is exactly a regurgitation of the propaganda by CCP. They blamed western influence, education and cultural whitewashing of HK Chinese as the reason for the current protests and their citizens believe it sincerely. They conveniently overlook the crux of the protest, which is to ask for universal suffrage. Even for a w…

After the 2016 election I almost feel the same about letting the public vote.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#159

Post by dragonsh »

bitxbitxbitcoin wrote: post #132
tanilama wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I don't think so. It is much more than losing face. Losing sovereignity in East Asian countries, where nationalism is hyper active, is an attack directly on national identity. The Chinese government now will cease to exist if it yields to independence demands from any of the separationist region. The nationalistic education has been ingrained into society at large, something nobody dares to question.

Losing sovreignity is the country scale version of losing face.

In my view it's not losing face, but loss of identity and dignity given nationalistic education. If one wants to conflat the meaning of face to identity and dignity then it can apply to any country or individual.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#160

Post by aboodman »

albertzeyer wrote: post #14

This is the first time I hear about the term "zeroth world". A quick Google search did bring up some results, but not much. Wikipedia does not seem to cover that. Of course it covers 1st/2nd/3rd world ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-world_model , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_World , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_World , https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World ). The terms "developed", "developin…

I took the term to be a snarky punch at the "1st world", which asian megacities have long since left behind.
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