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A Walk in Hong Kong

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Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#71

Post by mytailorisrich »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #68
mytailorisrich wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe quite clear that they can stage peaceful protests. Peaceful protests have never been prevented in Hongkong.

Perhaps you are unaware, China has produced videos of military units gathering near the border of HK. China is making very visible threats to peace. edit next reply below.. "Let's not pretend" - are you copying my language from another comment? weird or a coincidence. Anyway we don't see eye to eye on this. In my view, Beijing's obstinance is causing all kinds of trouble in HK, for both the HK police and the general…

This is not a response to "peaceful protests", which are common in Hongkong without any problem, including on very sensitive issues (e.g. the annual gathering to commemorate the 1989 protests on Tiananmen Square).

Let's not pretend that what has been happening are just peaceful protests: There has also been violence, ransacking of the LegCo, and blockade of the airport. Any of which would not have been accepted anywhere.

Protesters have won on the extradition bill. It's effectively gone. Now they have just made sure that the mainland's public opinion rally against them and behind the central government. That has been a strategic mistake, IMHO.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#72

Post by oinkl »

TASMebWdhWc9NeA wrote: post #51

I am in Verona (Italy) at this time, and I'm in a hotel where some tourists from Shanghai happen to be as well. I'm alone, so I hang out in the lobby a lot. I just engaged in some small talk with some of those tourists, and the discussion somehow shifted to the Hong Kong protests. Basically what they sad is that western culture in Hong Kong clashes with the chinese culture. They don't seem to say that the chinese way…

America's Fundamental Misunderstanding of China

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ojr-tqaQQOQ

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#73

Post by tanilama »

Joakal wrote: post #35
lawrenceyan wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in the suburbs of California, I never really understood just how central the concept of face was in Asian society until visiting China and seeing it for myself. Over time I’ve come to realize that many of these social concepts exists in some form or another across all cultures, likely implicit in some part to the human condition, but it still surprises me to this day just how entrenched it still is in cert…

Face is important because it came from a family oriented culture. If you were made to look bad, you'd feel even worse when the rest of your family finds out (Grandparents, relatives would talk negatively about this aka gossip). This morphed into businesses that build on relationships, the Chinese term for that is 'guanxi'. For China, they would 'lose face' if Hong Kong became independent (or Xinjiang or Tibet for tha…

Actually I don't think so.

It is much more than losing face. Losing sovereignity in East Asian countries, where nationalism is hyper active, is an attack directly on national identity.

The Chinese government now will cease to exist if it yields to independence demands from any of the separationist region. The nationalistic education has been ingrained into society at large, something nobody dares to question.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#74

Post by stringyham »

hrktb wrote: post #32

> The MTR is the one technology the Hong Kong protests could not do without, an autonomous fiefdom that the police mostly stay out of. It is neutral territory This is a godsend. During Paris protest earlier this year the gov would just shut down public transports for about 5~10 km around and block main accesses so people couldn’t massively join the protests. At least the mainland gov. didn’t get to touch that I guess…

> During Paris protest earlier this year the gov would just shut down public transports for about 5~10 km around

10km is nearly Paris' width so I'd say that's a bit much. If I remember correctly, they closed the main stations around the protests but not much more.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#76

Post by hrktb »

unityByFreedom wrote: post #67
hrktb wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, this piece would not stand as a news article on its own (it's also not its goal). I think the reaction we have to it is that it is willing to present aspects that might not resonate with most people, nor have any specific signification or symbolism attached to it. Even a long form news piece would need to justify why some bits is in it, what role it plays in the piece, and get scrapped if it fails to justify its…

HK is protesting because they don't support a proposed law that would allow China to extradite HK citizens to China. Very simple to add that and I wonder why such a long blog post does not mention it.

I'd argue at this point most people who wanted to hear about the protests has, and knows what it is about. Or anyone picking up that there's protests from this piece would find the relevant info very fast.

It's actually how I heard about it first, with random comments on international board that pushed me to try to find better sources. That's not a bad path to news either, as you get to it with curiosity and interest already setup.

That aside, I think this piece would still be interesting for people knowing nothing about the reason of the protest, just like how we can read memories about wars we don't really know about but still get the 'how it felt from the inside'.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#77

Post by thinkingemote »

lawrenceyan wrote: post #30
spyckie2 wrote: post #19

This piece is quite accurate - it really makes you feel like you're in Hong Kong during the protests. References aside, as a US citizen in Hong Kong there are some things that I respect immensely and some things that really get on my nerves about HK. I greatly respect the people and the cause. It reminds me of that one poem - > Do not go gentle into that good night. > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. The pe…

Growing up in the suburbs of California, I never really understood just how central the concept of face was in Asian society until visiting China and seeing it for myself. Over time I’ve come to realize that many of these social concepts exists in some form or another across all cultures, likely implicit in some part to the human condition, but it still surprises me to this day just how entrenched it still is in cert…

"Face" is also tied into shame and handling feelings of shame.

Shame is a major emotion (or idea) and one which is often internalised. Shame is the negative feeling about yourself. "The definition of shame is a discrete, basic emotion, described as a moral or social emotion that drives people to hide or deny their wrongdoings" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shame

Much of western street violence is about shame at it's core. One basic over simplified version is that if I ask for respect I'm asking you not to reveal my own shame. The idea that violent criminals are shameless is wrong - they have deep shame about themselves - and violence is often one reaction to this internal feeling.

Of course there are different types of shame. Sometimes what we think as wrong isn't wrong and sometimes it's not our fault. Society and shame is entwined - and because of this being able to talk about and manage shame is almost impossible.

I'm not sure how this relates to Asian society but I thought it could be a useful avenue into investigating face.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#78

Post by WilTimSon »

ETHisso2017 wrote: post #2

Hmm. I wonder how the protesters know who to trust in their Telegram groups and on LIHKG. There has to be a core of organizers, however anonymous they may appear to be. Is there a way to track metadata exhaust from telegram for building a social graph or xss lihkg? Could be a way to ID them.

I can't find the proper link right now but there was a case of a "journalist" with no press pass going around the HK airport when it was occupied by the protesters. He took people's photos without permission, tried to quickly get info out of others, etc. It's referenced in passing here, it seems: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/14/hong-kong-flig...

I'd wager it's the same in their group chats. Someone's talking too much and seems too eager to find out details or incite violence? That's very suspicious. I don't think the mainland forces are trained for infiltration of this kind so they're messing up a fair bit.

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#79

Post by j1vms »

spyckie2 wrote: post #53
spyckie2 wrote: post #19

This piece is quite accurate - it really makes you feel like you're in Hong Kong during the protests. References aside, as a US citizen in Hong Kong there are some things that I respect immensely and some things that really get on my nerves about HK. I greatly respect the people and the cause. It reminds me of that one poem - > Do not go gentle into that good night. > Rage, rage against the dying of the light. The pe…

I don't want to change my original post, so I'll add to it here: When you're on the streets with the protests, it feels extremely primeval. The micro-scale interactions of the protest movement is like looking into a microscope at microorganisms, blobs of life that just kind of move around and sometimes eat others but most of the time just float there. It's a decentralized, rather polite mob. Angry, yes. Scary, someti…

> It feels like there's no real goal or direction of the protest except to exist

Reading this makes me think a very little bit of the Paris Commune [0], well in its early days perhaps.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Commune

Re: A Walk in Hong Kong

#80

Post by bubblegum »

Everyone is a sacrifice of ideology, it's easy to merge into one ideology then see the surface and judge the other, but if you look from the outside of ideologies, things could be much complicated than it seems to be.

I am Chinese people in Shanghai, and not happy about the status of democracy/free speech/privacy either. But I feel like things are improving, by the progress of economical development, but this is not my point, just feel some observations of the current China is biased.

My point is, The protest in HK is trying to stimulate Beijing to make an action, which will be a disaster for all people, except the politicians from the western world would love to see it, and some protester love to see it because that will prove China is evil.

The reason Beijing must take action is because the building is too tall to fall, just like US must send troops to Iraq, the ideology must prove itself is righteous.

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