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Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

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Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

more like gave up getting butchered.

just over 58,000 American dead vs. roughly 2 to 4 million Vietnamese dead (depending on how you count the casualties). I'd say they did a lot more butchering than they received.

yes I agree, but the number of dead Vietnamese was not the reason for the war's unpopularity in the USA.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#382
post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does my theories about International reactions on Brexit and the Irish border have to do with the legality of China using troops to forcefully break another treaty? Would China’s action become legal depending on what I answer?

Because the current UK government’s Brexit position will cause them to violate the GFA treaty with Ireland. Its the same behavior. I presumed you would have been able to make the leap.

How many treaties have Trump violated? Does anyone want to do something about the US?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#383

This is really bad and definitely triggers memorys of the Tiananmen massacre. I'm very interested how the rest of the world is going to react to these developments considering the position of China only got stronger since the Tinanmen situation. I recognized that the reaction of e.g. Germany was considerably weaker to the HK protests than e.g. the Arab Spring protests, but I guess we just have to wait and see. Edit:…

I think some people in HK are deliberately trying to force the Mainland government to bring in the tanks. Otherwise why would they start beating up Mainlander travelers?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one doubt this protest is about losing relevance of Hong Kong resulting in house, education and health problems. I am the one saying the original title and Twitter is fake news. Indeed it is conflating the facts to foment protest. If there is a protest in New York and national guards are having something in Philadelphia, anyone can conflate the facts to make it national guards summoned to end violent protest in NY…

The "five demands" of the protest are: * Withdraw the extradition bill * Carrie Lam resigns * Protests are not categorized as riots * Full independent inquiry into the police * Release of imprisoned protestors Nothing to do with housing or any of your other claims. And it is hard to believe the army being summoned to Shenzhen (just across the HK border) or "leaking" videos of training to use force against people dres…

This is what is visible symptoms. Not the underlying root cause. When solving a bug in technology, it needs a root-cause analysis to fix. The root problem of all these protests in HK are house, education and health issues faced by over 40% of population.

I have been a part in past of peaceful protest in Hong Kong without masks and anti-riot gears. Walked from Victoria park in Causeway bay to central offices. I do understand its difficult to follow fearless strategy like Gandhi's non-violence by most. But I am a believer of non-violence and follower of its principles.

A protest or cause lose its relevance when there is a violence in it, however small. Gandhi never defended violent protest nor asked for release of violent protestor, the demand itself is in contravention of the non-violent protests.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To pick a single data point, I'd assume that someone who bans all Winnie The Pooh pictures across a country after comparisons are made with themselves, has very probably gone insane and become utterly drunk on power. Do not expect Xi to do something sane, especially if he feels insulted. I think HK's best hope is for something else big to distract him. Unfortunately, I think it is very likely right now that he will i…

History is filled with insane leaders who made terrible choices. Sometimes it seems stranger that leaders make rational decisions.

As above, so below.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#386
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole comment mentions China. I believe this is another one of those fake news campaign running across Hong Kong as mentioned in news. HN is not fake news medium but is being made to generate fake news with conflated facts. Been on HN since it's birth, not fake accounts like yours or people downvoting critical comments with facts. Hopefully some moderator on HN reviews these comments for facts not conflated facts…

I believe that you hold your views in good faith, but the way you've presented them in this thread—calling the views you disagree with "fake news" and accusing others of having "fake accounts"—are against the site guidelines. The provocative rhetoric you've used in places, such as "prison cells" in referring to HK, is also against the site guidelines because it's flamebait. If your posts include provocations like thi…

Thanks for a detail response. My comments were written with good faith.

If you look at twitter messages, timeline. I believe it was an attempt to spread a news that a military build up is happening near Shenzhen for crackdown on Hong Kong to foment protestors. Hence my comments about conflating the facts, I did not say its true or false but conflated (the very definition of fake news). If there is a button on that post to report, I would have done that instead of commenting on the post with details why I feel its a fake news.

Regarding prison cells size apartments I took a leaf from news by a major outlet with reputation I use, The Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/nov/01/hong-kongs-poo...

Go through my submissions and you won't see political or national posts. I have only commented on already political or national news by others on HN front-pages. If the guideline in HN not to have political or national discussion on it, I believe it will be better to not have any posts in front-pages on it.

My submissions and comments are mostly technology in nature which is my passion.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China was always going to annex Hong Kong eventually, this is something almost everyone with any interest in this particular situation has known for many years. Spinning that particular situation in a reason to boycott a country (and replace it with what? India isn't exactly a paragon of virtue and neither is the US, and let us never speak of the stain that is Russia) is a strange mental place to go to.

> China was always going to annex Hong Kong eventually, You cannot annex your own territory.

HN turned into a website where quoting facts of Wikipedia gets you downvotes. I would have never thought that this site will reach this low.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the current UK government’s Brexit position will cause them to violate the GFA treaty with Ireland. Its the same behavior. I presumed you would have been able to make the leap.

How many treaties have Trump violated? Does anyone want to do something about the US?

How many? I only think of one the Paris agreement that the US has withdrawn from. But that is not a legally binding treaty according to the US officials.

"United States officials to regard the Paris Agreement as an executive agreement rather than a legally binding treaty. This removed the requirement for the United States Congress to ratify the agreement.[13] In April 2016, the United States became a signatory to the Paris Agreement, and accepted it by executive order in September 2016"

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#389
post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the theory during the Clinton administration and, to be blunt, that theory has been wrong. The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. The west has fundamentally failed to make that case to them and even now western democracy is on the decline. Please, please do not take a free China for granted. Do not think that change — that democracy and freedom — is…

As life conditions improve, the change is inevitable. Not liberal democracy, but some radical change. Chinese middle class may not demand democracy but they are clearly unhappy with the judiciary. Some kinds of checks and balances and independent juridical system is where it may start. Maybe we should look how some European monarchies gradually transformed over centuries.

The goal of the Chinese leadership seems to be Singapore - a rich, rules-driven, low-corruption dictatorship. That would satisfy at least some of the demands of the Chinese public.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#390
post #53

The title makes it sound like Shenzen is not part of China. You don't "enter" part of your own country.

Yes, you most definitely do. Be it for suppression ("British troops entered West Belfast", "The Syrian army entered Aleppo"), for removing occupiers ("French troops entered Paris", "Croatian troops entered Dubrovnik"), or whatever ("National Guard entered the Waco compound")

But aren't all those cases where the status of the city is unclear? Have I missed some news about Shenzhen?
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