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Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

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Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#221

Post by jbattle »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #125
Jgrubb wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never underestimate the persuasive power of a regime murdering several thousand people in plain sight. I remember thinking the same thing about the Arab Spring in 2009.

I generally agree with you but it's a lot easier for the west to turn a blind eye to the middle east or Africa (especially post fracking) than it is to turn a blind eye to the far east. By virtue of their standards of living, deep economic ties and stable governments the more developed parts of the far east are basically honorary Europe in the west's mind and that comes with higher expectations of civility. It's real…

Tiananmen square

Tiananmen square

Tiananmen square

Tiananmen square

Tiananmen square

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#222

Post by bin0 »

api wrote: post #211
markus_zhang wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The history of HK is essentially the rule of the central government (UK or China) and the local overlords (The few families and their lackeys the triads). HK's prosperity was largely the result of Cold War and I'm afraid that is gone forever (unless of course the world goes on that route again).

Russia seems to be trying to build crazy dead hand nuclear cruise missiles and America is talking openly about militarizing space. I would say we are back on the entrance ramp to that route. Maybe we both figure it's a way to get GDP up...

> dead hand

I assume you are referring to "dead man's switch"? If so, we've had the concept of mutually assured destruction for a long time. With our radar capabilities etc. we can see bombs coming long before they hit. Plenty of time to launch our own. Same goes for the Russians.

With respect to militarizing space, the French are doing it too, and I don't hear the same issues being raised. It's better we get there before, say, China or Russia. https://www.ft.com/content/a479bcb6-a628-11e9-984c-fac8325aa...

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#223

Post by woah »

majia wrote: post #22
lewi wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Claims without citations, 5 day old account, comment history shows user is from china: not sure if I'd trust the comment.

Please follow HN guidelines and refrain from personal attack. Assume good faith and be substantive.

Looking at the comment history, this is another exclusively pro-China account. CCP is now policing HN as well as HK!

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#225

Post by aldoushuxley001 »

dragonsh wrote: post #215
Zenbit_UX wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's been almost 4 weeks of regular HN posting since you've made a comment that wasn't politically charged or that mentions China. What gives, this doesn't seem like a normal account.

The whole comment mentions China. I believe this is another one of those fake news campaign running across Hong Kong as mentioned in news. HN is not fake news medium but is being made to generate fake news with conflated facts. Been on HN since it's birth, not fake accounts like yours or people downvoting critical comments with facts. Hopefully some moderator on HN reviews these comments for facts not conflated facts…

I like how this fake/troll account accuses its parent comment of being a fake when called out. It’s the proverbial ‘no u’.

I can’t help but read this as China about to do some terrible things to Hong Kong and pre emptively launching their online troll army to try and whitewash what’s about to go down.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#226

Post by intopieces »

dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

This was the theory during the Clinton administration and, to be blunt, that theory has been wrong.

The Chinese people do not see risking growth disruption as worth what the west considers freedom. The west has fundamentally failed to make that case to them and even now western democracy is on the decline.

Please, please do not take a free China for granted. Do not think that change — that democracy and freedom — is inevitable. It’s not.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#227

Post by 8ytecoder »

dep_b wrote: post #81

As incomes rise in China people will demand other things from the government than food, shelter and a comfortable middle class life. Hong Kong was ahead of the rest of China since they have been living pretty liberal under UK rule and were more prosperous. Whatever they do in Hong Kong now will not stop from things happening all over China at a given point.

(I don’t remember where I read this now.) Chinese view of a govt is fundamentally different from the West. They don’t see their govt as apart from them. Govt is like an extended family there. Viewed from his angle it’s not hard to understand why they’d want an authoritarian govt let alone tolerate it.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#228

Post by resters »

namelosw wrote: post #218
mymythisisthis wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China is where the USA was in the 1950s; lots of industrial growth but lots of pollutions, a population happy about all the new wealth and not willing to protest.

China has a different culture. One reason that western people having protesting culture because of historically authoritarians are less powerful and less cruel than the eastern ones. Take the 'nine familial exterminations'[0] as an example. It will most likely become a totally different cyberpunk society, with modern cities and massive surveillance coexist, instead of being another US.

> One reason that western people having protesting culture because of historically authoritarians are less powerful and less cruel than the eastern ones.

I think western people are just more complacent, and so protests are viewed as fundamentally non threatening by authority figures.

In China, however, the people are much less complacent and so authority figures fear more widespread uprising.

In the US, we are taught to view this sort of thing through the lens of authoritarian excess, but to do so requires Saddam-ifying the Chinese government.

A more rational view is to suppose that all governments operate from the same playbook and use whatever tactics are necessary to keep the people at bay.

The American people embody a unique blend of cowardice and complacency that most governments would be quite pleased to foster in their own populations. The image of the "Tank Man" was so compelling in the US because that kind of courage against authoritarian power is utterly foreign to Americans.

In the US, the people with "Tank Man" level courage (Chelsea Manning, Ed Snowden, etc.) are vilified and most Americans follow the lead of authority figures and despise them.

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#229

Post by inflatableDodo »

rruieews wrote: post #170
inflatableDodo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To pick a single data point, I'd assume that someone who bans all Winnie The Pooh pictures across a country after comparisons are made with themselves, has very probably gone insane and become utterly drunk on power. Do not expect Xi to do something sane, especially if he feels insulted. I think HK's best hope is for something else big to distract him. Unfortunately, I think it is very likely right now that he will i…

> assume that someone who bans all Winnie The Pooh pictures across a country I'm not sure if this will change your opinion, but this isn't true. I asked my friends that are in China now to search for Winne The Pooh on Baidu and Bing, and they were able to find pictures of the character. The are also Winnie the Pooh cartoons and movies and dolls readily available in China. Along with various merchandise for sale. So n…

>I'm not sure if this will change your opinion, but this isn't true.

Do you think there was ever a ban?

Re: Chinese military entering Shenzen, just across the border with Hong Kong

#230

Post by neaden »

pcmaffey wrote: post #175
loyukfai wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When did protest start to become common in the states?

Returning GIs from WW2 protested, resulting in the GI bill. Women protested in the 1910s for the right to votes. My guess is it’s an industrial revolution side effect, but would be love to learn of earlier roots.

The Bonus Army occupying D.C in 32 probably belongs on any list of significant protests as well.
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