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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#141

Post by [deleted] »

navigatesol wrote: post #112
toomuchtodo wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny enough, FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits so FCA can still sell cars in Europe. EDIT: Please buy that Tesla and support a company who actually cares about selling EVs. https://www.theverge.com/2019/4/8/18300393/tesla-fiat-chrysl...

> FCA is paying Tesla billions of dollars in ZEV credits That's an interesting interpretation. FCA is buying ZEV credits in the market, of which Tesla has a large supply. Would you describe Facebook buying servers as "Facebook paying Intel billions so they can keep selling advertisements online"? > Please buy that Tesla Every time Tesla comes up and there's negativity, there are accusations of "paid short-sellers", w…

[deleted]

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#142

Post by xeromal »

sandworm101 wrote: post #139
xedeon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be living under a rock. A Long Range Tesla Model 3 can easily do 1000km/day range using a supercharger and can now charge 75 miles in 5 minutes or up to 1,000 miles per hour ( https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging ). EVs are being widely adopted in Europe, with Norway (harsh winters) taking the lead. I don't get the whole "EVs are only suitable in California" narrative. https://cleantechnic…

>> 1000km/day range using a supercharger. They can do that today. I;m driving a car from 2010. How are the 10+yo teslas doing? And when I say 1000km/day I mean 1000km in perhaps eight hours of driving, not eight hours of driving plus another eight hours of battery logistics. >> and I only drive to the office 3 times a week. So you have a part-time job in an office? That's part of the California narrative. You aren't…

At some point in history, there was only one gas station in the world. It takes time to build infrastructure. People like you seem to miss that. My Tesla can go 300 miles and charge most of that in about 15 minutes. Plug it in, walk into the gas station to take a piss and buy a snack and walk out. Done. I did that a month ago when I drove to vegas. It's not perfect, but it's incredible.

There's a second thing that most people with gas cars don't realize. EVs do REALLY well in traffic. The slower the better. Gas cars continue to burn fuel while idling. When I'm in traffic, my 300 mile tesla goes to 500+ mile range because moving an EV at 5-10mph is optimal conditions.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#143

Post by rconti »

Spivak wrote: post #76
rconti wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it matter to you, as the consumer, that FCA hated producing the car? It's still cheap to buy and operate.

Because, in dev speak, the parts of the code base that get the most love are the ones the devs enjoy working with. The car that was produced begrudgingly as a means to get back to the cars the engineers wanted to make doesn't exactly inspire confidence that parts will be available and cheap, mechanics will be able to service it in a decade, people will make 3rd party parts, etc.. In cars there is a lot of hidden valu…

These are some good points about longevity, but the people I know who own 500es love them and say they drive well. For now :)

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#144

Post by user9383781 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #135
joshlegs wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> towing capacity what? Electric vehicles are vastly superior in towing capacity. The Model X from tesla can TOW a boeing jet -- 230,000 pounds. Now that has some tradeoffs for range, i believe. but in terms of actual towing capacity, it's leaps and bounds ahead of any other vehicle capable of towing. if you'd said 'towing range', i might be willing to accept that. range itself is also just not really a concern any m…

Towing capacity isn't same as being able to pull heavy things. Pulling has to be matched with the corresponding braking power, which with regenerative braking means a massively over-spec regenerative system. Or you give up on regenerative braking and just install bigger disks, hammering range. That tesla can move an airbus along a runway (so can any honda civic btw) but try moving that aircraft down a hill at speed .…

Trains have been using regenerative braking to stop massive multi-ton loads for decades. I don't think this is a real issue.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#145

Post by dreamcompiler »

arrrg wrote: post #92
dreamcompiler wrote: post #72

50 years from now we'll look back on hybrids as a brief transition phase in the history of automobiles. They're much more complicated than ICE cars and vastly more complicated than electric cars. Once good enough, cheap enough batteries happen (i.e. now) there's no reason for hybrids to exist.

Cars like the Volt are most certainly not more complicated than ICE cars … You can simplify those cars significantly due to them being an hybrid.

The Volt has a 1.4L ICE engine, three clutches, two electric motors (of two different types--ferrite and neodymium), a large battery, a wall charger, an inverter, and a complicated mechanical transmission that accepts drive input from any motor. The Volt may be more efficient than an ICE car, but it is in no way simpler.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#146

Post by xedeon »

sandworm101 wrote: post #139
xedeon wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be living under a rock. A Long Range Tesla Model 3 can easily do 1000km/day range using a supercharger and can now charge 75 miles in 5 minutes or up to 1,000 miles per hour ( https://www.tesla.com/blog/introducing-v3-supercharging ). EVs are being widely adopted in Europe, with Norway (harsh winters) taking the lead. I don't get the whole "EVs are only suitable in California" narrative. https://cleantechnic…

>> 1000km/day range using a supercharger. They can do that today. I;m driving a car from 2010. How are the 10+yo teslas doing? And when I say 1000km/day I mean 1000km in perhaps eight hours of driving, not eight hours of driving plus another eight hours of battery logistics. >> and I only drive to the office 3 times a week. So you have a part-time job in an office? That's part of the California narrative. You aren't…

I have a friend who is a real estate agent that drive up to 350 miles (563km) a day. He has zero issues. He does not have to "plan" to recharge since the car's nav system does it for him.

>> I mean 1000km in perhaps eight hours of driving, not eight hours of driving plus another eight hours of battery logistics.

You are grossly underestimating the current state EV charging (you seem to be just a tad ignorant on the subject). A typical charging session on a Tesla supercharger is only 10-20 minutes.

At most, a 1017+ km road-trip would only add 40-60 minutes of combined supercharging (3 stops https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=1366ac4f-d815-4e9...). I know because myself and many others have done it.

>> I saw at least a few hundred vehicles on the highway over the weekend (BC, Canada, proper mountains, sometimes 200+km between gas stations) not one seemed electric, certainly none were teslas

I can't tell if your being serious or not. ICE cars have like a 100+ year head-start, not to mention the infrastructure. Of course that would be the case, but not for long...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#147

Post by dawnerd »

altano wrote: post #81
dawnerd wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get a 2019 eGolf for about the same price. Dealers are willing to negotiate big time. I got mine almost two months ago for 10k off msrp + state and federal.

Where at?

Im in the Portland area and I've heard from others that have also scored the same.

There was a thread on Slickdeals a while back about it https://slickdeals.net/f/13163326-21-000-off-msrp-2019-volks...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#148

Post by johnbrodie »

joshlegs wrote: post #131
sandworm101 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> sometime in the 2020s when an electric vehicle becomes cheaper than a gas car. Maybe, but the limitations of electric vehicles still mean it is an apple and oranges comparison. Electric cars are still a long way off in terms of range, towing capacity, utility and winter performance. They might seem great in California, especially as a second car, but they are still a long long way off from replicating how many non…

> towing capacity what? Electric vehicles are vastly superior in towing capacity. The Model X from tesla can TOW a boeing jet -- 230,000 pounds. Now that has some tradeoffs for range, i believe. but in terms of actual towing capacity, it's leaps and bounds ahead of any other vehicle capable of towing. if you'd said 'towing range', i might be willing to accept that. range itself is also just not really a concern any m…

What?

The towing capacity of a Model X is around 5k pounds. It's illegal to tow more the door sticker says on public roads in the US. For comparison, depending on what kind of Ford F-150 you get, you can tow from 5k to 8k pounds. According to some [1], you're also looking at a 45-60% decrease in range if you tow something like a camper.

[1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122487_towing-a-camper...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#150

Post by gwbas1c »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #102
NickM wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly it is still a small compromise, but I’ve done 8 hour road trips in my Tesla to go snowboarding in Vermont and having to stop and charge adds under an hour to the trip. The Volt does seem like a great car, but to me it’s not worth the maintenance/space/reliability compromise of a gas engine in exchange for not having to take a relaxing break every few hours when I’m road tripping; obviously my values may be…

There is no maintenance or reliability compromise. Go look at owner's reports.

I had a Leaf for 4 years and had no scheduled maintenance. The only thing I had to do was rotate the tires, put air in them, and put washer fluid in.

I assume the Volt requires at least an oil change every year?

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