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GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

wsj.com

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Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#101

Post by jedberg »

malyk wrote: post #65
jedberg wrote: post #58

I'm trying to replace my 2012 SUV with another SUV. I've been looking all over for a plug in hybrid SUV, and there aren't any good ones. I want the plug in hybrid because 95% of the time we do less than 30 miles locally, but once in a while we drive a couple hundred. I would be fine with an all electric SUV with a decent range, but those don't exist either. The model X is not sufficient, and is also terrible for ever…

Yeah, this is what I don't understand, but maybe it's because my wife and I are a one car and mostly public transit oriented family. What I want: A hybrid electric with ~40 miles of battery and a 300mi gas tank for longer trips What Auto Manufacturers assume (I'm guessing): 2 car households where one is 100% electric and the other 100% gas. Seems to me like the plug in hybrid is the best of all worlds. Everyone can u…

Yeah the manufacturers don't seem to aim for the single car household in America. I guess they assume most of us either live in the burbs and have two cars or live in the city and have no cars.

The truth is where I live I'm just too far to have single car. Most of the time we only need one car, but we have just enough cases of my wife and I needing to go two different places that it doesn't make sense to rent or Uber/Lyft. And maybe that's why they don't cater to that segment. There just isn't enough people who want one car.

My ideal would be a plug in hybrid van. Our van gets the most use because I often have to drive around my in-laws, so I need the six seats. But almost all of our trips are within 20 miles round trip. But sometimes we go 400 miles to LA. I'd love it if I had a van that could do that.

If Honda made an all-electric or hybrid Odyssey, I'd buy it the day it came out, pretty much regardless of price. It would be the perfect car for us.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#102

Post by cmrdporcupine »

NickM wrote: post #96
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #47

Well, I love my Volt. Maybe it will be a collectors car some day. Amazing piece of engineering. I charge at work and at home and use gas about once every two months. I don't have "range anxiety", I have "range requirements"; no way I'm going on an 8 hour drive to go skiing in the Adirondacks or in Vermont with a pure electric. A pure BEV won't meet my needs.

Admittedly it is still a small compromise, but I’ve done 8 hour road trips in my Tesla to go snowboarding in Vermont and having to stop and charge adds under an hour to the trip. The Volt does seem like a great car, but to me it’s not worth the maintenance/space/reliability compromise of a gas engine in exchange for not having to take a relaxing break every few hours when I’m road tripping; obviously my values may be…

There is no maintenance or reliability compromise. Go look at owner's reports.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#103

Post by Reason077 »

yardie wrote: post #12
Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

> both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e. Here was an electric car that was stylish, quirky, and could be had on the used market at a great price. But as I got further into it I realized that FCA hated producing this car. Its only reason to exist is to allow them to produce more pollutant vehicles as a regulatory balance. And if it…

> "At one point I was completely fascinated with the Fiat 500e ... I realized that FCA hated producing this car."

There is an all-new electric Fiat 500, based on a new electric-only platform, in development for a 2020 release. This will be built in much higher volumes than the old 500e, on a dedicated production line in Italy.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motor-shows-geneva-motor-...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#104

Post by pjc50 »

throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

I appreciate that this is a problem, especially in denser cities; hopefully there will be a clever curbside solution, but in the meantime what about at work or while shopping?

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#105

Post by throw0101a »

llampx wrote: post #29
throw0101a wrote: post #26

My parents' house does not have a garage or a driveway, how exactly will the only-full-EV future work for them? Where are they supposed to charge?

Do they have an oil well and refinery in their backyard?

What point are you trying to communicate in this comment?

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#106

Post by chrisbolt »

freehunter wrote: post #48
Nasrudith wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that also a bit tautological given how fixed costs are divided over units produced? If they produced and sold more they would be cheaper. Of course that assumes they would sell well if they put more effort into doing so.

That works if they're losing money due to not selling enough volume to recoup the startup costs. However if they're actually selling them for less money than they cost to make, every unit sold is just adding to the loss. If it costs $1,000,000 to design a car and I sell that car for $30,000 and I sell 33 cars, I've lost $10k. But just selling one more car will turn a profit. On the other hand if that car costs $32,00…

> not even taking engineering and marketing costs as a factor.

It looks like engineering is included as "Development" in the original report: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-generalmotors-volt/factbo...

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#107

Post by throw0101a »

branchan wrote: post #82
hayksaakian wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be more charitable and assume the OP means they park vehicles curb-side

I think llmapx's comment still applies here.

I have no idea what point llmapx's comment is supposed to convey.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#108

Post by LucasBrandt »

arrrg wrote: post #92
dreamcompiler wrote: post #72

50 years from now we'll look back on hybrids as a brief transition phase in the history of automobiles. They're much more complicated than ICE cars and vastly more complicated than electric cars. Once good enough, cheap enough batteries happen (i.e. now) there's no reason for hybrids to exist.

Cars like the Volt are most certainly not more complicated than ICE cars … You can simplify those cars significantly due to them being an hybrid.

I'm only moderately familiar with this topic (mostly from following racing, where many major series have integrated hybrid powertrains), but this doesn't seem accurate to me. All the hybrid vehicles have to develop and integrate an ICE in addition to the hybrid system, not instead. I don't see where the simplicity gains you refer to would come from.

Again, I'm not very knowledgeable here, I just have intuition to go on and familiarity with the fact hybrids are definitely viewed as more complex to develop and race, in motorsports. I'd love to be more informed if I'm missing some major factors

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#109

Post by prolepunk »

freehunter wrote: post #51
Someone1234 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It starts at $36,620 and has up to $3,750[0] in federal tax credits. Making it a $30K+ Subcompact non-luxury vehicle. It doesn't make sense. [0] https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml

For comparison, you can get a Certified Pre-Owned BMW 3-series for similar money. At that price point you need to be buying the car specifically because it's electric, not because it's a good value.

Yes, but you will end up with a used BMW 3-series.

Re: GM, Volkswagen Say Goodbye to Hybrid Vehicles

#110

Post by Glyptodon »

Someone1234 wrote: post #2

To fully electric. As the article says, both companies produced these as regulatory compliance vehicles. Now they're shifted that effort over to electric because the incentives are better for them. The only companies trying to make hybrids for real are Toyota and Honda. Everyone else is just pumping out low effort compliance vehicles. It is hardly surprising that these vehicles haven't been hugely successful. I'd lov…

What about the Korean makes? I have the impression that Kia/Hyundai are giving things a reasonable go, but are maybe just a little late to it. Is this wrong? (A friend has a Niro and I've been impressed with it for the price.)
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