8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now • Hacker News Board

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#111

Post by euroPoor » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:40 AM UTC

kstenerud wrote: post #24

kartan wrote: post #8

There was a time that it was difficult for me to understand how it was possible that governments in the middle east were supporting domestic terrorism. It was difficult to imagine how normal people were supporting the killing of fellow citizens. Now, that I see this same trend unravel in the USA it becomes easier to understand. I have seen for the past decades the shifting of what "conservative" means. Extremists wer…

The reason why extremism is having more trouble taking root in Europe is because there's less inequality there. Where inequality is highest, terrorism is highest.

Yeah, I'm going to need proof on that. Political extremism is, like, a European invention. How about this

https://taz.de/taz-Recherche-auf-Englisch/!5558072/

or this

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/15/world/europe/italy-neo-na...

?

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#112

Post by panpanna » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:41 AM UTC

zaksoup wrote: post #88

faissaloo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This keeps getting repeated but it's not exactly true, 8chan was started because Fredrick Brennan had a shroom trip where he saw an Ouroboros and came up with the idea to make a 4chan where you could make your own board. People then ended up migrating over during GamerGate because Moot was shutting down discussion of it.

> [...] shutting down discussion of [gamergate]. My, what an interesting way of saying "banning users posting sexually violent threats"

To people dowvoting parent: please google

gamergate Charlottenville

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#113

Post by noobermin » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:42 AM UTC

throwaway0129 wrote: post #12

My friends and I used to visit the *chan sites when we were younger. Sometimes the discussions there were good e.g. if you browse the exercise forums. But then one of my closest friends killed himself silently. That was when I realized that these sites are no jokes. Some of the people there have fallen so deep into the pit of hate and depression. Nowadays I don't even link nor share the name of the sites to my younge…

I think this is mistaking the symptom for the cause. I'll admit this is largely my ideology, but large civic disengagement along with dire economic issues are the reasons for festering chan culture, not the other way around. It makes people ripe for accepting narratives that blame immigrants, women, muslims, etc.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#114

Post by noobermin » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:45 AM UTC

EdwardDiego wrote: post #98

...how have things gotten objectively worse for young men?

Men are half the population. Many men are poor, have lack of job opportunities, just like poor women. Identity politics that completely ignores economic conditions people face will always be flat and can't explain the depth of complexity different people in society face.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#115

Post by aaron695 » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:46 AM UTC

Please don't give the disgusting Slate clicks. They are part of the problem.

Bellingcat's analysis of CC and Walmart, are accurate, neutral and don't help continue the cycle.

They actually try and understand what's happening unlike Slate which is just firing off volleys in their own sick way.

https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2019/08/04/the-el-p... https://www.bellingcat.com/tag/christchurch/

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#116

Post by noobermin » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:50 AM UTC

eej2ya1K wrote: post #32

chvid wrote: post #15

Does anyone have an idea of how big 8chan and 4chan is in terms of users? Just from the visible activity in there I can see they must be massive. I think Slate is incorrect in describing them as expression of traditional neo-nazism. To me they are quite their own thing. Born out of Anime culture and gaming-culture becoming a playground for role playing, trash talking, trolling, real-life pranks degenerating into what…

You start out by making relatively innocent jokes about jews, and notice that certain portions of the anglosphere left and right really respond to this. Not only do they tell you that you can't say that, they also shower you with threats of violence. Successful troll is successful. So you go a bit further, start moving into actual anti-semitic jokes, conspiracies. Still just for the lulz, but it gets an even better r…

This wasn't really my experience. "Jokes" didn't lead people to becoming racist or white supremacist. What it did do though is make people who were actually white supremacist come in and try to spread their ideologies and win people over to their side, so they could convince a fraction, probably the minority of posters, to actually believing it, and eventually their numbers grew.

The idea that people turned into white supremacists because they made a few jokes is kind of a slipery slope argument.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#117

Post by nfoz » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:52 AM UTC

noobermin wrote: post #113

throwaway0129 wrote: post #12

My friends and I used to visit the *chan sites when we were younger. Sometimes the discussions there were good e.g. if you browse the exercise forums. But then one of my closest friends killed himself silently. That was when I realized that these sites are no jokes. Some of the people there have fallen so deep into the pit of hate and depression. Nowadays I don't even link nor share the name of the sites to my younge…

I think this is mistaking the symptom for the cause. I'll admit this is largely my ideology, but large civic disengagement along with dire economic issues are the reasons for festering chan culture, not the other way around. It makes people ripe for accepting narratives that blame immigrants, women, muslims, etc.

It's easy to blame "economic issues" for all sorts of social problems, but I doubt that has much to do with this one. The 4channer-types I've known were mainly from rather well-off families and with tons of means and opportunity. Perhaps even so much that it'd be easier to correlate the other way.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#118

Post by belltaco » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:54 AM UTC

darawk wrote: post #90

codingslave wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's more going on in our current society than is being discussed. What it is exactly, and why its happening, is really hard to tell. We cant see the forest from the trees. But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them. People are responding, and are increasingly responding with huge negativity. I think this has nothing to do with how they're raised, an…

I think it's essentially draws back to the incel/hikkomori phenomenon. You never see young men in relationships doing these kinds of things...whether it's a white right wing mass shooter or an Islamic suicide bombing. People seem to want to pin these things on ideology, because that's the reason the perpetrators themselves give for what they do. But it seems more likely to me to be a reaction to a life they view as h…

I don't think the Christchurch shooter was an incel, apparently he had pictures on social media partying with women. And he killed 50.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#119

Post by charlchi » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

eej2ya1K wrote: post #32

chvid wrote: post #15

Does anyone have an idea of how big 8chan and 4chan is in terms of users? Just from the visible activity in there I can see they must be massive. I think Slate is incorrect in describing them as expression of traditional neo-nazism. To me they are quite their own thing. Born out of Anime culture and gaming-culture becoming a playground for role playing, trash talking, trolling, real-life pranks degenerating into what…

You start out by making relatively innocent jokes about jews, and notice that certain portions of the anglosphere left and right really respond to this. Not only do they tell you that you can't say that, they also shower you with threats of violence. Successful troll is successful. So you go a bit further, start moving into actual anti-semitic jokes, conspiracies. Still just for the lulz, but it gets an even better r…

If you think this is all just playing devil's advocate and trolling there is something deeply flawed about your assumptions about how these people(alienated young white men) experience modern culture and politics.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#120

Post by peteretep » Sun, Aug 04, 2019, 8:57 AM UTC

javagram wrote: post #25

wyldfire wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently this marks US Mass shooting #250 for 2019 (this was the 215th day of the year). [1] https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/03/el-pas...

Worth considering the varying definitions of mass shooting can inflate the count beyond what people may think of when they read “mass shooting”. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/12/... The US is a large company and there are more guns than people. There’s a lot of opportunity for people to snap and go on a rampage, unfortunately.

> The US is a large company

increasingly