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8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

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Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#81

Post by _iyig »

kstenerud wrote: post #24
kartan wrote: post #8

There was a time that it was difficult for me to understand how it was possible that governments in the middle east were supporting domestic terrorism. It was difficult to imagine how normal people were supporting the killing of fellow citizens. Now, that I see this same trend unravel in the USA it becomes easier to understand. I have seen for the past decades the shifting of what "conservative" means. Extremists wer…

The reason why extremism is having more trouble taking root in Europe is because there's less inequality there. Where inequality is highest, terrorism is highest.

By what measure has extremism failed to take root in Europe?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlie_Hebdo_shooting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Berlin_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Arena_bombing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Stockholm_truck_attack https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Strasbourg_attack

If you meant nativist extremism, I suspect multi-party democracies allow something of a safety valve. AfD and Brexit Party voters can still feel like they’re being heard while identifying as less extreme than NDP or BNP. In the American two-party system, one side is always painting the other as their most extreme example with no credible third parties for contrast, and indeed extremists do sometimes rise to prominence from within either party.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#83

Post by koonsolo »

kartan wrote: post #8

There was a time that it was difficult for me to understand how it was possible that governments in the middle east were supporting domestic terrorism. It was difficult to imagine how normal people were supporting the killing of fellow citizens. Now, that I see this same trend unravel in the USA it becomes easier to understand. I have seen for the past decades the shifting of what "conservative" means. Extremists wer…

For Europe, most of the civilian killings are indeed done by extremists. But we are not allowed to aknowledge or talk about that part, so the extremists of the "other side" start to grow.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#84

Post by faissaloo »

fwip wrote: post #23
wyldfire wrote: post #13

I think that technology has brought us some truly marvelous things. But they also enable us to avoid casual social contact while enabling us to withdraw from meaningful social contact. Online anonymity permits endless Sybil attacks -- helping turn communities' frustration from anger and rage into violence. I'm guessing/assuming that 8chan is an anything goes censorship free community (like 4chan was/is?). And maybe i…

Yep - 8chan was started because even 4chan wasn't odious enough for them.

This keeps getting repeated but it's not exactly true, 8chan was started because Fredrick Brennan had a shroom trip where he saw an Ouroboros and came up with the idea to make a 4chan where you could make your own board. People then ended up migrating over during GamerGate because Moot was shutting down discussion of it.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#85

Post by codingslave »

throwaway0129 wrote: post #12

My friends and I used to visit the *chan sites when we were younger. Sometimes the discussions there were good e.g. if you browse the exercise forums. But then one of my closest friends killed himself silently. That was when I realized that these sites are no jokes. Some of the people there have fallen so deep into the pit of hate and depression. Nowadays I don't even link nor share the name of the sites to my younge…

I think there's more going on in our current society than is being discussed. What it is exactly, and why its happening, is really hard to tell. We cant see the forest from the trees.

But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them. People are responding, and are increasingly responding with huge negativity. I think this has nothing to do with how they're raised, and every thing to do with how they're treated and the opportunities they're being given. There is real discontent here.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#86

Post by feu »

lumberjack wrote: post #50
tathougies wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes we have redefined conservative to be anyone with whom we disagree. The shooter posted about various 'concerns'. He was worried about environmental destruction caused by massive corporations and immigrants. This seems neither republican, Democrat, progressive, nor religious. The best description is eco nationalist but that doesnt even cover it. Given the major figures in the conservative movement were criticized f…

Ecofascism is what it is called and it is an inside joke. It is not a serious political position. It is meant precisely to confuse people like you.

That's an incredibly bold claim.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#87

Post by _ywdj »

lumberjack wrote: post #65
wisty wrote: post #40

We could talk about how this is largely a mental health problem. A lot of depressed young men do stupid risky stuff with no concern for their own well-being. I know a few guys who have wrapped their cars around trees. I bet most shooters were just throwing in the towel in a more hateful and dramatic way. I see the main issue as a marketing problem for psychology. Men are focused on solving problems, and I'd bet they…

It's not a mental health problem. It's a propaganda problem. These people aren't clinically insane. They are just enveloped in hatred. In particular dehumanization propaganda brainwashed them into seeing others as not even human. If you go to places with decades long conflicts, you'll see this mentality on display everywhere. So it's not a mental health issue. All these people aren't insane. They are just really conv…

I can agree that it's not a problem of mental health in the sense of diagnosable conditions like major depression, schizophrenia, etc.

But it is linked to the inability of people to achieve positive life outcomes - i.e., healthy friendships and intimate relationships, satisfying and well-paying jobs, and a sense of community engagement.

This kind of deep hatred only develops after you've spent enough of your life absent of acceptance and love.

There currently isn't an obvious path to a better life for people in this situation.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#88

Post by zaksoup »

faissaloo wrote: post #84
fwip wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep - 8chan was started because even 4chan wasn't odious enough for them.

This keeps getting repeated but it's not exactly true, 8chan was started because Fredrick Brennan had a shroom trip where he saw an Ouroboros and came up with the idea to make a 4chan where you could make your own board. People then ended up migrating over during GamerGate because Moot was shutting down discussion of it.

> [...] shutting down discussion of [gamergate].

My, what an interesting way of saying "banning users posting sexually violent threats"

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#89

Post by solipsism »

codingslave wrote: post #85
throwaway0129 wrote: post #12

My friends and I used to visit the *chan sites when we were younger. Sometimes the discussions there were good e.g. if you browse the exercise forums. But then one of my closest friends killed himself silently. That was when I realized that these sites are no jokes. Some of the people there have fallen so deep into the pit of hate and depression. Nowadays I don't even link nor share the name of the sites to my younge…

I think there's more going on in our current society than is being discussed. What it is exactly, and why its happening, is really hard to tell. We cant see the forest from the trees. But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them. People are responding, and are increasingly responding with huge negativity. I think this has nothing to do with how they're raised, an…

But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them

Don't go there. Don't say mass shooters aren't at fault.

The thing is, you don't need to. Both things can be true -- life is hard and unfair for certain people in certain ways, and that in the aggregate is bound to lead to more mass killings and other negative effects like suicide.. and the ones who decide to kill innocent people are to blame for their disgusting choice.

Only the most simplistic and naive ways of thinking try to boil down complex problems into black and white.

Re: 8chan Is a Normal Part of Mass Shootings Now

#90

Post by darawk »

codingslave wrote: post #85
throwaway0129 wrote: post #12

My friends and I used to visit the *chan sites when we were younger. Sometimes the discussions there were good e.g. if you browse the exercise forums. But then one of my closest friends killed himself silently. That was when I realized that these sites are no jokes. Some of the people there have fallen so deep into the pit of hate and depression. Nowadays I don't even link nor share the name of the sites to my younge…

I think there's more going on in our current society than is being discussed. What it is exactly, and why its happening, is really hard to tell. We cant see the forest from the trees. But I don't think its young men's fault, I think that things have gotten objectively worse for them. People are responding, and are increasingly responding with huge negativity. I think this has nothing to do with how they're raised, an…

I think it's essentially draws back to the incel/hikkomori phenomenon. You never see young men in relationships doing these kinds of things...whether it's a white right wing mass shooter or an Islamic suicide bombing. People seem to want to pin these things on ideology, because that's the reason the perpetrators themselves give for what they do. But it seems more likely to me to be a reaction to a life they view as having no future, by which I mean no prospect of a successful romantic relationship with the opposite sex.
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