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Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

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Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#151

Post by late2part »

lowdose wrote: post #145
nsxwolf wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We should still be talking about this. That story fascinated me. If the media went into more detail on infrastructure beyond stories about how it's crumbling or who in congress does or doesn't want to pay for it, that could really make a difference. I would watch a nightly news show called "Infrastructure Tonight" if it existed.

It would be awesome if the fourth estate executed their role in society proper. But outlets like the WSJ have to push out an article per minute to remain relevant in the search ranking. Maybe news is more important than just supplying entertainment and should the world take notice of UK's model with the BBC.

you are also subscribed to and paying Vice?

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#152

Post by late2part »

cosmodisk wrote: post #118
aldoushuxley001 wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost certainly they switched contractors because of corruption. Here in Montreal, it's well known that the mob runs the construction industry and quite frankly you're not allowed to even bid on contracts without their say so, otherwise you'll get visited for a very frank chat. So I can't speak for why infrastructure is expensive elsewhere, but atleast here in Quebec (& likely RoC) it's simply because of corruption.…

15 years ago,I worked on a residential project. Being a young boy with not much of work experience, I found it quite amusing. One day I got assigned to register all incoming deliveries. So here comes this truck with bricks.The driver gets off the truck,I inspect the bricks and he gives me the paperwork to sign: it says 7 trucks with n pallets of bricks..I look at the driver,at the truck and ask him: so where are the…

Why would you passively participate? This seems like corruption at its core - something worthy of a fight against!

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#153

Post by late2part »

siphon22 wrote: post #134
BubRoss wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like a cliched and simplistic explanation to just waive away a large difference with 'culture'.

Sometimes things really are that simple though. Why can you (most of the time) leave your bike outside a store you stop at in Japan but not in America? Because it isn't part of Japanese culture to take what doesn't belong to you, but is normal for a number of Americans. Why can you get relatively wholesome food at a 7-11 in East Asian countries while you get junk and trash at ones in America? Because Japanese people…

I'm an American and I don't wreck, vandalize or spray grafiti. I've seen same in Japan, Brazil, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Paris, etc... (and US). Your generalizations are lazy.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#154

Post by golover721 »

Honestly I think there is a lot of incompetence involved with local transportation agencies as well. Often they are extremely underfunded so it’s not always their fault. But living in a metropolitan area where the population is very much for innovative and forward thinking infrastructure, the agency responsible has time and time again made very costly mistakes and decisions.

As well as try and deceive the public by doing things such as claiming they are providing BRT but really it’s just new buses with an HOV lane. So at this point the public has very little faith in them being able to provide what we so desperately want.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#155

Post by closeparen »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #83
keerthiko wrote: post #45

A hard-to-capture cost factor is keeping highly used services operational or replaced while doing work on it. A super-fancy new subway with lots of stations in Shenzhen where people weren't already taking trains and expecting to use stations for their daily commute will be much cheaper than disrupting a line service to open a new station in London or New York City. Replacement bus bridge services, network-wide servic…

> Significantly more arbitrary middlemen making their way into the process because of "let the market figure it out" does , in fact, create some process inefficiencies in supply chains and contract pipelines. Few countries are as aggressively market-based for things meant for public good as the US. It's kind of disingenuous to blame "let the market figure it out" for government contracting problems that are attributa…

Suppose your team needs new workstations. Or an RDBMS, a server operating system, a compiler, a profiler, or any number of things.

“Write down the requirements, we will put out an RFP and give you the cheapest supplier that satisfies the requirements” is an absurd approach. The people on your team have familiarity and proficiency with certain tools, experience with many more, and professionally informed opinions of most. These things vary wildly in terms of quality and fitness for purpose in ways that are wickedly hard to pin down in a document listing objective criteria. The best tools may be open source, or from small time shareware shops that will not submit proposals. There may be some discount IDE out there with the same feature set as IntelliJ but unbearably frequent crashes. Well, there is no credible independent report proving its deficiency, so it’s what you’re going to get. There are some ridiculous programming languages out there, but “not ridiculous according to my team” is a clearly subjective and corrupt requirement.

Do you think following this process faithfully will make your team more or less efficient than rigging it to land on the tools you know to be right for the job?

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#156

Post by wil421 »

mratsim wrote: post #115
nisten wrote: post #74

The author briefly touched on how it's also expensive in countries with similar law-systems like Canada and Australia. It may just be that our laws make it a lot easier for contractors to jack up government contracts. My personal opinion is that managers and regulators in Europe and South Korea are a lot more efficient because they have a lot more freedom to apply common sense and personal judgement without fear of g…

As an European, I'm always surprised when someone says that our governments are efficient. We're always complaining about them.

The grass is always greener on the other side. It’s funny OP mentions Berlin train stations but fails to mention the Berlin Airport.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#157

Post by siphon22 »

late2part wrote: post #153
siphon22 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes things really are that simple though. Why can you (most of the time) leave your bike outside a store you stop at in Japan but not in America? Because it isn't part of Japanese culture to take what doesn't belong to you, but is normal for a number of Americans. Why can you get relatively wholesome food at a 7-11 in East Asian countries while you get junk and trash at ones in America? Because Japanese people…

I'm an American and I don't wreck, vandalize or spray grafiti. I've seen same in Japan, Brazil, India, Hong Kong, Singapore, Paris, etc... (and US). Your generalizations are lazy.

You are one American. Generally, in American culture, the things I described are commonplace and par for the course while in East Asian countries (or other smaller, homogenous countries) not so much. If it does happen sometimes in those places, it is generally far less acceptable while in America you must simply accept it and factor it into the cost of operation. Having lived here all my life, it is funny to see anyone deny it.

And I am not surprised vandalism and graffiti occurs in Brazil, India, and Paris by the way. I would group those places in the same realm as the U.S.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#158

Post by ambicapter »

spenczar5 wrote: post #149
ambicapter wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting overlapping information seems like a good play, but the determination of who can be trusted on which facts (again, as a non-expert) seems like it'd be drowning in personal bias.

What is your alternative proposal, if you were to (say) do research on the likely future of US-China trade policy, to make it concrete?

I would ask an expert :) But therein lies the rub, I wouldn't ask an expert who was known for profiting off of US-China trade policy news. My spider sense fires here because the GAO is asking the contractors, who benefit from the infrastructure project corruption, why is contracting so expensive and complex? And lo and behold, the contractors tell him, its too complex a question to answer. Fancy that.

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#159

Post by Timothy055 »

ijpoijpoihpiuoh wrote: post #105
lostlogin wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible that the 10-15k figure includes a different way of counting? Pedestrians and bikes etc? It would be good to see a source.

No pedestrians or bikes on the interstate. It's likely the figure is just a large exaggeration.

Or it’s multiplied over the expected life of the roadway?

Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive

#160

Post by megabl8 »

rsync wrote: post #121

I am fascinated to see that 3 hours, 109 upvotes and 107 comments into this story, the word "regulation" occurs only once in the comment thread. I own, jointly with others, a 3 mile long road. If there could be only two things that I impressed upon someone, in relation to this road, they would be the following: 1) You have no idea how costly maintaining a road (any road) is. I didn't. I had no idea . Whatever liberta…

> You have no idea how costly maintaining a road (any road) is.

And after your comment, I still do not. Telling us might help.

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