Here's my simplistic answer to this in three words: incompetence, corruption, self-interest.
Having worked on a multiple construction projects and witnessed all 3 abovementioned aspects in various shapes and forms,I'd like to give a real life example. In the second largest city in Lithuania,a retailer got an approval to build a massive shopping center in the very center of the city.An agreement between the city council and the retailer was made and part of the project was to build a small bridge connecting the road outside the shopping center and a small island in the river alongside the road. The contract was won by a company that specialises in road and bridge building..So far so good. The works started. I used to go past the site on daily basis and often observed many people simply standing on the upcoming bridge and not doing much... Eventually a guy I used to know got a job with the company to work on that bridge project.Money was good..He quit after only a month.When I enquired what happened,he said that he is a man of work and can't stand idle. Even thought he tried his best,he couldn't stand the fact that he simply couldn't not work.On his first day,he went to the site manager and asked what he should be doing.He got told to collect a massive spanner and tighten 12 bolts on the metal construction.He returned to the manager in 45min or so and asked what's his next task.The site manager looked at him with anger and disappointment and said: look, it's your first day and you already making mistakes.I have given you a task for the whole day,not just for 45min..So now I now have to come up with something else for you to do.. Don't you ever do this to me again.You need to preserve your work,not rush with it.. Now scale it up to a massive underground project and you'll get the idea where the money is going to..
Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
111–120 of 221 posts
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Almost certainly they switched contractors because of corruption. Here in Montreal, it's well known that the mob runs the construction industry and quite frankly you're not allowed to even bid on contracts without their say so, otherwise you'll get visited for a very frank chat. So I can't speak for why infrastructure is expensive elsewhere, but atleast here in Quebec (& likely RoC) it's simply because of corruption.…
The thing is, even if this is true, it still doesn’t explain the cost difference between us and e.g. Japan. Construction firms and public infrastructure works in Japan have well-known ties to the yakuza, yet they still finish these at way lower costs than us (even though labor is more expensive!) Why?
Cultural differences: Japan is pretty homogenous and they seem to see themselves as part of a whole whereas in the US, for example, exploiting your fellow citizens for profit is almost a matter of duty in business.
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#113This article linked from another Josh Barro piece tells you exactly why it's so expensive
https://www.city-journal.org/html/fifteen-stories-under-1410...
In Britain and France, only the “miners”—or tunnelers—work in unions similar to America’s. Contractors hire other workers largely as they wish. The jobs pay well but not American-construction-union well. In New York, everyone works by the same union rules, which include hourly wages and staffing requirements that can mean 25 workers per tunnel-boring machine, compared with a dozen or so in a nonunion state and as few as five in countries such as Norway.
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#114I wonder if someone has found a strong correlation between infrastructure costs and legal or land costs?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY-mlcgFCc4
Legal costs is definitely an issue sometimes
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#115The author briefly touched on how it's also expensive in countries with similar law-systems like Canada and Australia. It may just be that our laws make it a lot easier for contractors to jack up government contracts. My personal opinion is that managers and regulators in Europe and South Korea are a lot more efficient because they have a lot more freedom to apply common sense and personal judgement without fear of g…
As an European, I'm always surprised when someone says that our governments are efficient. We're always complaining about them.
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#116A family member in the DOT told me this as but one of many tales of woe. Several hundred miles of an interstate were going to be rehabbed. There was a proven technique to redo the joints between the concrete slabs, which were in good shape. A contractor was hired to do a small number of miles as a test, but they had a learning curve. The first few joints that they redid were not done well, but they rapidly improved a…
Given that the US vehicle fatalities as a whole are only around 36,000 (source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...), 10 - 15 thousand seems hard to believe.
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#117> The usual way you produce journalism or policy research on a technical question like this is that you hire someone with expertise in journalism or public policy to produce a report. That person calls up relevant experts and asks them to talk, for free, about their areas of expertise. This is one of the great perks of my job: I call up lawyers and other professionals who ordinarily charge hundreds of dollars an hour…
As other respondents have said, a good journalist does not rely on a single expert. Good reporting cross-checks multiple sources, often seeking out conflicting ones, and trying to form a coherent story out of that. Unfortunately, that often leads to false dichotomy. It's not sufficient to seek out a contradictory source... especially if that contradictory source is not credible. But it's very exciting journalism to s…
Why is it that you assume that a PhD or community support makes someone right? And surely he gets his paycheck from someone just as Y does, right?
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#118A family member in the DOT told me this as but one of many tales of woe. Several hundred miles of an interstate were going to be rehabbed. There was a proven technique to redo the joints between the concrete slabs, which were in good shape. A contractor was hired to do a small number of miles as a test, but they had a learning curve. The first few joints that they redid were not done well, but they rapidly improved a…
Almost certainly they switched contractors because of corruption. Here in Montreal, it's well known that the mob runs the construction industry and quite frankly you're not allowed to even bid on contracts without their say so, otherwise you'll get visited for a very frank chat. So I can't speak for why infrastructure is expensive elsewhere, but atleast here in Quebec (& likely RoC) it's simply because of corruption.…
15 years ago,I worked on a residential project. Being a young boy with not much of work experience, I found it quite amusing. One day I got assigned to register all incoming deliveries. So here comes this truck with bricks.The driver gets off the truck,I inspect the bricks and he gives me the paperwork to sign: it says 7 trucks with n pallets of bricks..I look at the driver,at the truck and ask him: so where are the other 6 trucks??? The driver looks at me,has a good laugh and says: that's not something you or I need to worry about. Just sign and move on...The H&S inspector from the council used to pay occasional visits to the site.He told the site manager that if someone dies,he should call him first and then the ambulance...The owner of the business used to come on site on weekly basis to pay us wages.He used to carry a briefcase stuffed with money and a gun...On the opposite site of the road there used to be the office of a political party..The head of the party used to come to our site for money. The site manager used to call the project owners,local millionaires, asking what to do.They used to tell him to give him the money and they will reimburse him later on... It was a circus of a highest order...
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#119There is a saying: it’s good to work on your weaknesses, but don’t dwell on them because otherwise you’ll spend all your time doing things you’re bad at. If we’re bad at centrally planned public infrastructure, we should just do less of it, and focus more on the things we’re good at doing.
Except that just because you're bad at taking care of your health, it does not follow you should spend less time on it. You'll still die early. What you're saying only makes sense if you're talking about things that are optional, not if they're required.
Centralized public infrastructure is not required. Decentralized infrastructure works.
Re: Why We Can’t Figure Out Why Infrastructure Is So Expensive
#120The best part of this thread is that the article is about why it's really hard to understand the cost differences, while the top comments all offer unsupported and anecdotal speculation explaining the cost differences in 200 words or less. "HN: Where dilettantes opine."
Mmmm, it's a good part, but I think the best part is all the people who have it figured out because in all of recorded history, nobody thought of checking into things like the costs of corruption.
It's nice that the city planners include it as a line item, why don't we look there?