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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#231

Post by seattle_spring »

victords wrote: post #223
baybal2 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Does anybody know how hard it is for non-Chinese citizens to live and work in China? It used to be easy... My first work visa to China took just 1 week to get: no criminal check, no work history check, no academic credentials check, you just get it. Now people are saying it takes from 1 to 3 months. Dark skinned people have hard time in China. Fat people, even worse. Shenzhen looks like a totalitarian fairyland — a…

Hold on. What's the deal with being fat? They're literally refusing visa because people are fat?

Nothing to do with visas, it's just how others treat people that look different there.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#232

Post by magduf »

axaxs wrote: post #197
flyinglizard wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t health insurance, in the case of tech workers at least, usually covered by the employer?

Typically, only partially. I don't even remember what I pay now, but it's more than a couple hundred per month. And that still has out of pocket costs, deductibles, etc. It's a giant scam.

It's generally not that much money if you're single. Where it's really awful is when you have a family with kids; even with employer-based insurance, the out-of-pocket costs are very, very high. The employer will cover a lot of your insurance cost if you're single, but not so much for the rest of your family.

The US is a good place to make a lot of money if you're a single tech worker and can live cheaply and save, but it's not a good place to raise a family at all.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#233

Post by CypherSnyper »

hostilerhetoric wrote: post #140
throwaway5752 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just as true with Indian students. Most people don't know how hard, how expensive, and how long it takes for someone to become a naturalized citizen. Combined with hostile rhetoric towards immigrants - and staying away from politics as much as possible, this is a big factor and not always precisely targeted to "illegal" immigration, the US is just not as attractive for knowledge workers as it was 5-10 years a…

Name a single time that Donald trump has said that he wants to prevent highly intelligent, highly educated people from other countries coming here. Name a single instance of it. I defy you to.

You say you have been on HN for 10 years when your account was created July 15...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#234

Post by magduf »

allthecybers wrote: post #213
strictfp wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the nordics and I when I was younger I thought of the US as the ultimate place to be. Now, having been there quite a bit, I must say that it really doesn't impress. The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist. And although I would concievebly earn a…

> The impression I got visiting the US in general (NY, Seattle, San Fran, LA), is that it all seems quite ran down, full of inequality and social problems, and lacking soul, mainly from being so consumerist. Having lived in at least two of the cities listed above I can confirm. Thinking about this point, some of the most valuable US based companies make gadgets and consumer items for us to play with, or services to e…

>Where is high-speed rail, broadly adopted forms of alternative energy, new feats of engineering in bridges and infrastructure, ambitious national projects that improve the lives of citizens and bring a higher standard of living not just to coastal cities?

It's in other countries. Western Europe and Japan and China have high-speed rail, with the most extensive network in Japan. Germany has an incredible amount of solar energy capacity installed, despite being pretty far north. Japan has the world's longest suspension bridge. etc. etc.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#235

Post by magduf »

ummonk wrote: post #87
maximente wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

likely only for tenured professors and possibly universities. professors hold immense power and likely benefit greatly from someone motivated to finish + move back and earn massive sums relative to rest of population; the university i'm guessing benefits to some extent financially/prestige of said research group/professor. edit: losers are general public, whose taxes go to public universities who then train up a gene…

I thought taxpayers only subsidize in-state tuition?

Yes, exactly. Foreign students are actively recruited by universities because they're profitable: they have to pay the full fare.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#236

Post by magduf »

adammunich wrote: post #130
m463 wrote: post #119

Silicon Valley has changed a lot in the last 20-30 years. The ability to physically design and create things has basically disappeared. I'm not only talking about chips, but mechanical, electrical engineering and all the miscellaneous disciplines associated with creating something in one place. That used to be the strength of the valley. If you want to do software, ok, but that's arguably less location dependent.

I agree but I think this can turn around, we've really only lost the quick-turn PCB manufacturing. The talent is definitely still here.

It is? Doing what? The hardware work has mostly left the area, and when that happens, skilled people either leave the area or go into different industries. They don't just sit around waiting for the jobs to come back.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#237

Post by magduf »

dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #202

As long as people keep coming to the US to get an education, that helps the economics of academia; out-of-state tuition paid for by somebody else (usually, countries or rich families) is $$$$. Maybe the problem is the US isn't as welcoming socially, politically or bureaucratically (visa process) as it once was? That's a PR image problem that the current political climate tarnished through inept and ignorant messaging…

>Maybe the problem is the US isn't as welcoming socially, politically or bureaucratically (visa process) as it once was? That's a PR image problem that the current political climate tarnished through inept and ignorant messaging.

This isn't correct at all. It's true the US isn't very welcoming any more, but this isn't through "inept and ignorant messaging", it's not inept at all: the US voters clearly don't want foreigners here, and they proved it by the way they've voted, and now they have an administration that clearly reflects the wishes of the electorate. Stop trying to sugar-coat the reality of how American voters really feel.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#238

Post by magduf »

spectramax wrote: post #203
dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #202

As long as people keep coming to the US to get an education, that helps the economics of academia; out-of-state tuition paid for by somebody else (usually, countries or rich families) is $$$$. Maybe the problem is the US isn't as welcoming socially, politically or bureaucratically (visa process) as it once was? That's a PR image problem that the current political climate tarnished through inept and ignorant messaging…

Yep, we will have to wait until 2020 but if Trump ends his term, the next president has a huge task of rebuilding the PR and get it back on track.

No, Trump is going to be there until 2024. There's very low likelihood that the Democrats will unseat him.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#239

Post by magduf »

commandlinefan wrote: post #105
Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

When I studied computer science (for my Master's degree), I was one of three US citizens in the entire program. If the US gets rid of foreign students, it gets rid of upper-level CS, at least.

The people who voted for the current administration would be perfectly happy to get rid of upper-level CS. They complain all the time about California anyway, and wish it would fall into the ocean.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#240

Post by helen___keller »

magduf wrote: post #238
spectramax wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, we will have to wait until 2020 but if Trump ends his term, the next president has a huge task of rebuilding the PR and get it back on track.

No, Trump is going to be there until 2024. There's very low likelihood that the Democrats will unseat him.

Can you also tell me tomorrow's lottery numbers? Thanks
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