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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#21

Post by throwaway5752 »

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

This is just as true with Indian students. Most people don't know how hard, how expensive, and how long it takes for someone to become a naturalized citizen. Combined with hostile rhetoric towards immigrants - and staying away from politics as much as possible, this is a big factor and not always precisely targeted to "illegal" immigration, the US is just not as attractive for knowledge workers as it was 5-10 years ago.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#22

Post by asdfman123 »

liberte82 wrote: post #15
wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

It's difficult to blame Chinese students for not wanting to stay when they're being met with outright hostile rhetoric from the political establishment. Economic considerations completely aside, no one wants to live and work in that kind of environment.

No want wants to live in that kind of environment?

In the US, Trump says mean things about certain types of immigrants.

In China, you can be jailed with no due process for speaking out about human rights abuses. Also, better hope you're not in a religious minority. Don't say anything bad about the government, because they're watching you!

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#23

Post by JTon »

ASalazarMX wrote: post #17
Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

Don't they pay full tuition? Even if they don't stay, it's a smaller net gain they study in USA.

Not to mention while they're studying aboard, they contribute to the local economy (goods & services). For masters and PhD candidates, they may also contribute significantly to projects led by professors; advancing a certain field

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#24

Post by ClutchBand »

suyash wrote: post #19
Andhurati wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With Chinese cost of living. So, no reason to stay in the Bay Area if you were raised in China.

There are several other reasons for not living in China, have you ever been there? Freedom, Privacy, Pollution, Corruption, Healthcare etc.

There are many who know and understand that decision, and still move back, so they must (at least some) be factoring things like this into the decision to move back. Perhaps they feel that they can make a difference or perhaps some other reason, but the numbers in the article show that they are going back.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#25

Post by mtw »

Ancalagon wrote: post #2

> “Wang said the salaries of his 40-person team for two years cost $700,000.” Good luck with that. If you’re averaging $10k per employee per year over the long term, I guarantee anyone with the ability to be a good engineer is still going to come to the US where they can make orders of magnitude more.

If it was just salary, they'd stay here. What's new is the general anti-Chinese climate, where they're suspected of working for Chinese interests, with people reviewing your research and trying to find anything hinting that you might have send files or blueprints to China. I'd also move back if I worked in such conditions. Plus you'd have family and friends back home.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#26

Post by duxup »

pjc50 wrote: post #16
Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

It can almost certainly unilaterally revoke all the visas. Why the US wants to blow up its own higher education system would be beyond me, though.

Is having someone as a student, and then they leave ... beneficial?

I don't have a position on this, I'm just wondering.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#27

Post by asdfman123 »

Andhurati wrote: post #14
akmarinov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they kind of contradict themselves later on > The pay discrepancy between Silicon Valley and China has narrowed since he launched in 2014, especially at top-tier firms. Wang’s engineers now make 70 percent to 80 percent of what they could get in America. So it was 700k in 2014, but now it's 70-80% of what US people would make.

With Chinese cost of living. So, no reason to stay in the Bay Area if you were raised in China.

Look at how much it costs to rent an apartment in Shanghai.

If you're hiring developers you're not going to put your offices in the countryside just like the US isn't hiring many programmers in rural Missouri.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#28

Post by duxup »

Causality1 wrote: post #13

We're quite far from the scale tipping in that direction, but it makes me curious about whether the US government has the legal authority to say "educating foreigners is no longer in the national interest, therefore it is no longer a valid reason to remain in the United States" and decimate the foreign student population essentially overnight.

The feds certainly can control who can enter the US and go to school. Legal authority isn't a question.

If they should or what is another story, I really don't know the answer.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#29

Post by asdfman123 »

ClutchBand wrote: post #24
suyash wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are several other reasons for not living in China, have you ever been there? Freedom, Privacy, Pollution, Corruption, Healthcare etc.

There are many who know and understand that decision, and still move back, so they must (at least some) be factoring things like this into the decision to move back. Perhaps they feel that they can make a difference or perhaps some other reason, but the numbers in the article show that they are going back.

It's probably because there is a healthy tech industry in China and it's home.

If could take classes in China and possibly get a job making 50% more there, I'd probably come back to the US instead. A 50% raise isn't enough to justify being half a world away from my family.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#30

Post by educationdata »

wesleyfsmith wrote: post #9

The most concerning quote: "About 80 percent of Chinese students who get degrees abroad now go back — up from about 33 percent in 2007, according to China’s Ministry of Education. Some 15 percent take jobs in China’s booming tech sector." Attracting top global talent has always been a competitive advance for America, and it's not a good sign for our economy if we can't retain people that we are educating here.

This number does not mean much. In the old days, more Chinese students rely on full scholarship to study in the US. Now, more and more rich Chinese kids (mostly come with very poor academic background) can study in the US.

So the overall number does not reflect "brain drain", because not all international students can be counted in "global talent". A more meaningful number should only count those graduated from good universities, or having scholarship etc.

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