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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#201

Post by havetocharge »

mericantest wrote: post #123
havetocharge wrote: post #116

Talent will follow opportunity, so this shift in sentiment may reflect the relative outlook on the level of opportunity that US provides relative to China, at least for those who are able to work in China. As an aside, the American immigration system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of its efficiency, and may be a contributing factor.

I think america is putting more money on trying to have natives fill these jobs over making the immigration policy more efficient. There is tons of potential being wasted in America and we really should focus on our native citizens. Its been a while since america has been dominant in the strength of our workforce and much of our current wealth is because of past generations not the current one. We should focus on cha…

As a three time immigrant, I have diametrically opposing viewpoints. My view is that immigration mostly benefits nations, and emigration always hurts them. Immigration increases the labour capacity, and nations that utilize this resource in a pragmatic manner are net beneficiaries.

My earlier point was around the fact that US isn't very efficient at managing this resource (letting arbitrary people through the physical border, while holding up highly educated folks in immigration queues for years).

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#202

Post by dfeojm-zlib »

As long as people keep coming to the US to get an education, that helps the economics of academia; out-of-state tuition paid for by somebody else (usually, countries or rich families) is $$$$. Maybe the problem is the US isn't as welcoming socially, politically or bureaucratically (visa process) as it once was? That's a PR image problem that the current political climate tarnished through inept and ignorant messaging.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#203

Post by spectramax »

dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #202

As long as people keep coming to the US to get an education, that helps the economics of academia; out-of-state tuition paid for by somebody else (usually, countries or rich families) is $$$$. Maybe the problem is the US isn't as welcoming socially, politically or bureaucratically (visa process) as it once was? That's a PR image problem that the current political climate tarnished through inept and ignorant messaging…

Yep, we will have to wait until 2020 but if Trump ends his term, the next president has a huge task of rebuilding the PR and get it back on track.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#204

Post by mycall »

imhoguy wrote: post #77
baron_harkonnen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know plenty of really bright, talented and hardworking Chinese grad students who have a preference to stay in the US but the current visa situation is appalling. RFEs (request for evidence) which were once rare have become standard practice, making the wait to start a new job go up by months, with lots of stressful uncertainty as to whether or not you will be allowed to stay in the US. There's lots of VC money in C…

Remote work will take it even further with remote salaries exploding. Being underdog in expensive 1st world country vs living like a king while telecommuting from mother's country - no brainer. And human rights become a minority problem. Harsh but real.

Any pro tips to go remote?

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#205

Post by dfeojm-zlib »

spectramax wrote: post #203
dfeojm-zlib wrote: post #202

As long as people keep coming to the US to get an education, that helps the economics of academia; out-of-state tuition paid for by somebody else (usually, countries or rich families) is $$$$. Maybe the problem is the US isn't as welcoming socially, politically or bureaucratically (visa process) as it once was? That's a PR image problem that the current political climate tarnished through inept and ignorant messaging…

Yep, we will have to wait until 2020 but if Trump ends his term, the next president has a huge task of rebuilding the PR and get it back on track.

IMHO, there's no need to delay or wait.. contradict and break this undesirable image by demonstrating positive and welcoming actions towards visitors of all kinds at every opportunity. I hope and make the future better by taking as many actions now to ensure it as I'm able.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#206

Post by [deleted] »

ccffph wrote: post #120
hello_moto wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement seems true without context but false with context. Allow me to provide the context: If you're a Chinese internantional student living in the USA where the #1 guy in the country uses Identity Politics as its arsenal to win and lead the country, you, as an outsider, will feel insecure w.r.t of races. If you're a Chinese international student coming back home to your country of origin, you're used to the…

We don't have mass shootings every week. 70% of gun deaths are suicides. The majority of the rest are inner city unlawful gang-on-gang violence. Most people never even see a gun in the US in their lifetime. Stop spreading misinformation and fear-mongering propaganda.

[deleted]

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#207

Post by throwaway5752 »

anw wrote: post #186
hostilerhetoric wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is literally zero precedent for what you’re talking about. Immigrants jailed in the US because of import taxes? Because of a trade rework? Never. We interred Japanese after Japan commuted one of the largest terror attacks in US history, that’s it.

While I hesitate to feed the trolling comments... > We interred Japanese after Japan commuted one of the largest terror attacks in US history, that’s it. 1.) "We" did not inter Japanese. Those who made the rules and followed them during that time did. If by "We" you mean "Americans" then that leads to the next point... 2.) Many of the "Japanese" you say were interred were Americans. They were put into camps not becau…

I appreciate you replying to that poster. I don't think of it as feeding the trolls, but performing a public service. That kind of disinformative and malicious content is infectious, and it's been to everyone's detriment that it's been allow to fester in so any corners of the internet. It deserved to be called out for being morally and factually wrong.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#208

Post by cltsang »

asdfgasd wrote: post #174
asdfman123 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they don't talk about it because they know they are not allowed to talk about it. I knew a Chinese exchange student who would debate all sorts of things, but when you brought up the Chinese government she would come to a hard stop and say "I don't talk about that." It's probably smart if you're from an authoritarian country.

Maybe you should actually spend some time in China before making silly assumptions. The Chinese government is not overly concerned with individual citizens sharing anti-government sentiment. It's not a problem for most people that aren't activists. Most people are concerned with much more basic aspects of life... supporting their families, getting good jobs, time for leisure... It doesn't mean it's acceptable, but as…

That is not true.

The Chinese government has been actively monitoring [0] all popular online messaging platforms, and shutting down any opinion that is considered by the government anti-government.

There is also some new network security law [1] that enforces companies, from ISP to website operators, to self-censor, and to pinpoint every action from every user, such that officials could collect the data as they wish [2].

The whole process is already well organized and somewhat automated. Now that the social credit score system is being deployed to more major cities, the threat of free speech is climbing to the next level.

You may say they don't fear. But I argue that many Chinese citizens don't even realize why they feel very uncomfortable and insecure to talk about politics. They think people who voice out are stupid. The reason deep down, is fear.

[0]: https://twitter.com/0xDUDE/status/1101909112131080192

[1]: http://www.hk-lawyer.org/content/china-passes-network-securi...

[2]: https://www.zdnet.com/article/chinas-cybersecurity-law-updat...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#209

Post by someguydave »

magduf wrote: post #155
binarysolo wrote: post #152

Eh, as a third culture kid with a US passport and 50%+ friends being international/TCK - it's honestly because the VISA process is appalling. Out of a sample of 10 international students I went to school with at Stanford 20 years ago (I just eyeballed my FB friend list and took 10, totally biased anec-data I know): • 4 are now citizens - all their green card processes took 7+ years, except the one person who got it v…

I don't see why this "massively sucks". Obviously, the American people, and the government they elected, don't really want these smart people in their country contributing to their economy, so there's other countries (the ones with friendlier visa policies) where they're more welcome and they should go. You can claim that Americans are shooting themselves in the foot with these policies, and electing people like Trum…

Trump has said many times that he wants a more meritocratic immigration system. A combination of big business and pandering to minorities keeps Congress from changing immigration from chain-migration to merit-based immigration.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#210

Post by someguydave »

havetocharge wrote: post #201
mericantest wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think america is putting more money on trying to have natives fill these jobs over making the immigration policy more efficient. There is tons of potential being wasted in America and we really should focus on our native citizens. Its been a while since america has been dominant in the strength of our workforce and much of our current wealth is because of past generations not the current one. We should focus on cha…

As a three time immigrant, I have diametrically opposing viewpoints. My view is that immigration mostly benefits nations, and emigration always hurts them. Immigration increases the labour capacity, and nations that utilize this resource in a pragmatic manner are net beneficiaries. My earlier point was around the fact that US isn't very efficient at managing this resource (letting arbitrary people through the physica…

I think a majority of voters would like the immigration system to be better enforced and more focused on highly skilled immigrants but there are powerful interests who like the status quo.
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