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China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

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Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#151

Post by angarg12 »

> China’s tech sector has its own shorthand to describe the hours that employees work in the country: “9-9-6,” meaning from 9 a.m. to 9 p.m., six days a week.

> “Our factories are still talking to us at 10 p.m. or 11 p.m., sometimes well into midnight. They’re working on weekends, so things get done much faster,” Gui said. “Whereas back in San Francisco, after 5 p.m. people won’t respond to your emails and you can’t get anything done until the next day.”

If that is the price of fast innovation, I rather be a bit slow.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#152

Post by binarysolo »

Eh, as a third culture kid with a US passport and 50%+ friends being international/TCK - it's honestly because the VISA process is appalling.

Out of a sample of 10 international students I went to school with at Stanford 20 years ago (I just eyeballed my FB friend list and took 10, totally biased anec-data I know):

• 4 are now citizens - all their green card processes took 7+ years, except the one person who got it via marriage

• 2 are STILL in the green card process

• 1 intentionally went home for opportunity

• 3 left due to VISA expiration issues. 2 went to Europe, 1 went to Canada. 2 are CS grads, 1 has a PhD in ML.

It massively sucks. We're talking about amazingly resourceful people who got raised at whatever sheep farm in Kenya and Uzbekistan, made it all the way to Stanford via merit-based scholarships and what not, and then got ejected from the US because national policy... and now some other country with friendlier VISA policies got 'em.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#153

Post by vipbababd »

This is just as true with Indian students. Most people don't know how hard, how expensive, and how long it takes for someone to become a naturalized citizen. Combined with hostile rhetoric towards immigrants - and staying away from politics as much as possible, this is a big factor and not always precisely targeted to "illegal" immigration, the US is just not as attractive for knowledge workers as it was 5-10 years ago.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#154

Post by dgemm »

hostilerhetoric wrote: post #140
throwaway5752 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just as true with Indian students. Most people don't know how hard, how expensive, and how long it takes for someone to become a naturalized citizen. Combined with hostile rhetoric towards immigrants - and staying away from politics as much as possible, this is a big factor and not always precisely targeted to "illegal" immigration, the US is just not as attractive for knowledge workers as it was 5-10 years a…

Name a single time that Donald trump has said that he wants to prevent highly intelligent, highly educated people from other countries coming here. Name a single instance of it. I defy you to.

Regardless of what the guy says, the fact is there have been numerous quiet policy changes that target legal immigration.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#155

Post by magduf »

binarysolo wrote: post #152

Eh, as a third culture kid with a US passport and 50%+ friends being international/TCK - it's honestly because the VISA process is appalling. Out of a sample of 10 international students I went to school with at Stanford 20 years ago (I just eyeballed my FB friend list and took 10, totally biased anec-data I know): • 4 are now citizens - all their green card processes took 7+ years, except the one person who got it v…

I don't see why this "massively sucks". Obviously, the American people, and the government they elected, don't really want these smart people in their country contributing to their economy, so there's other countries (the ones with friendlier visa policies) where they're more welcome and they should go.

You can claim that Americans are shooting themselves in the foot with these policies, and electing people like Trump, but if that's what they want to do...

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#156

Post by dgudkov »

hostilerhetoric wrote: post #147
bilbo0s wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty it's even kind of going beyond that right now. You could end up being the poor innocent chinese patsy that they arrest for God knows what in some tit-for-tat power display. No one wants to be the dummy sitting in a foreign prison for 10 or 15 years while China and the US argue over their dick sizes. As an American I'd think very carefully about working in China right now for the same reason. No matter…

There is literally zero precedent for what you’re talking about. Immigrants jailed in the US because of import taxes? Because of a trade rework? Never. We interred Japanese after Japan commuted one of the largest terror attacks in US history, that’s it.

>There is literally zero precedent for what you’re talking about.

That's not exactly true. While China doesn't detain US citizens (yet!) it detains several Canadian citizens presumable because the Huawei's CFO has been arrested in Canada by a US request. See https://time.com/5626289/china-canada-arrest-yantai/

Which makes things even worse - you may become a hostage due to US/China conflicts even if you happened to be a citizen of a US ally.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#157

Post by hello_moto »

ccffph wrote: post #120
hello_moto wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement seems true without context but false with context. Allow me to provide the context: If you're a Chinese internantional student living in the USA where the #1 guy in the country uses Identity Politics as its arsenal to win and lead the country, you, as an outsider, will feel insecure w.r.t of races. If you're a Chinese international student coming back home to your country of origin, you're used to the…

We don't have mass shootings every week. 70% of gun deaths are suicides. The majority of the rest are inner city unlawful gang-on-gang violence. Most people never even see a gun in the US in their lifetime. Stop spreading misinformation and fear-mongering propaganda.

"70% gun deaths are suicides" => THIS is propaganda, give me drill-down numbers. Do you consider mass-shooting as ONE incident? how do you count the victims?

So if hundreds died due to repeated mass-shootings and only 30% of the incidents that makes gun to be a non-issue in the States? because the other 70% gun-deaths are suicides? So just because the largest piece of the Pie-chart is for "non-violent" gun-death then there is no gun-issue?

What about domestic conflicts that leads to shooting? (glad they missed ... )

Damn...

I saw Dana Loesch went on CNN one time and I saw her speaking in some sort of Townhall. She's really good at her job and the NRA should pay her TONS of money. That lady can sell you anything including MySpace.com today.

You should talk to the victims of mass-shootings and learn the truth.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#158

Post by HomeDeLaPot »

Well of course they're leaving, I'm seeing firsthand how hard it is for them to stay here. Employment authorization takes so long that I've seen students lose the internships and job offers they have lined up. That's on top of all the culture/language differences and whatnot. I don't blame them one bit for going back home.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#159

Post by hello_moto »

chrshawkes wrote: post #148
kevincrane wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been more mass shootings so far in 2019 than there have been days. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_...

While there is most definitely a gun issue in the USA, that Wikipedia article said less than 200 have actually died in all of those mass shootings this year. As the third most populated country with over 320 million people, the chances of being involved in a mass shooting scrape is still astronomically small compared to keeling over from a heart attack due to too much McDonalds and CNN.

"while there's an issue, but only 200 out of 300 mill people died".

You count the number of people who got killed. You should also included the number of people who "almost" got killed (paralyzed), traumatized, etc.

Somehow your statement also made the whole thing looks "insignificant". I'm not sure why that is because in other countries, there will be a huge uproar leading to change in laws and regulations to the point of banning.

Re: China's rising tech scene threatens US brain drain as ‘sea turtles’ return home

#160

Post by magduf »

mericantest wrote: post #123
havetocharge wrote: post #116

Talent will follow opportunity, so this shift in sentiment may reflect the relative outlook on the level of opportunity that US provides relative to China, at least for those who are able to work in China. As an aside, the American immigration system leaves a lot to be desired in terms of its efficiency, and may be a contributing factor.

I think america is putting more money on trying to have natives fill these jobs over making the immigration policy more efficient. There is tons of potential being wasted in America and we really should focus on our native citizens. Its been a while since america has been dominant in the strength of our workforce and much of our current wealth is because of past generations not the current one. We should focus on cha…

>we really should focus on our native citizens

Our natives can't do a lot of jobs because they don't have the educational background, and that isn't going to change any time soon with the way we fund schools.

The other thing we don't do is provide low-cost high-quality healthcare to our citizens, and there again, there's not much effort to fix this, and instead the party in power wants to remove healthcare from poorer people.

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