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Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

m.economictimes.com

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Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#141

Post by dirtyid »

shitgoose wrote: post #86
dirtyid wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Chinese supply chains that eventually build the iPhone grew from economic development zones in the 80s. India isn't starting from zero, but it's also not going to replicate that within a decade. Assuming it could - we don't know if democracies can direct capital development the same way authoritarian state capitalism could. I think India should be fine, at least in the short term, if only because Chinese manufact…

"Chinese manufacturing want to migrate to ASEAN" curious, what do you mean by that? "China will spin up African manufacturing" you think that will work? also, my limited understanding is that china is after africa's natural resources, infrastructure etc, not people.

China is working to escape middle income trap, their goal is to shift into higher paying domestic consumption + services which means inevitably shifting manufacturing out of the country. They are already experiencing labor shortages due to high wage, and combined with efforts to reduce pollution the government and business owner interest are aligned. Keep in mind most of the factories Chinese owned, they have incentive to offshore their business to where labor is cheap, currently that's in adjacent ASEAN countries that's relatively close to Chinese logistics chain.

As for Africa, they're already paying for the infrastructure, if resources is near by, it makes sense to consolidate manufacturing. And geopolitical it's preferable to boosting the development of India, an immediate regional competitor. Also Africa is fragmented and easier to negotiate with, have similar demographics to India (lots of young), more willing to learn mandarin. Alternatively, we're not even sure if massive manufacturing nations are viable with automation. Regardless there's

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#142

Post by rorykoehler »

kumarharsh wrote: post #138
rorykoehler wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not patronising at all. It's the reality. They got major shit to deal with. We all do but theirs is on another scale. Pretending they don't because of some misguided fear of being seen as patronising doesn't change it one bit. Like I said I hope they are successful as I hope we all are so we emerge from this existential threat together stronger and more wise but I fear for a place like India based on what I saw…

And how do you suggest India "deals with it"? Because you've discarded creating more job opportunities as a viable solution.

I didn't. I said I have mixed feelings. Damned if they do damned if they don't. From what I have read there are some great initiatives to modernise farming methods with technology in order to reduce burning. They should pursue this aggressively. India has a lot of sun. They should pursue solar electricity aggressively. One other thing that struck me was how poorly Indian cities are designed. Not walkable at all. This is a huge mistake that should be acknowledged and worked on. I know its a pipe dream but I really think India could benefit from not embracing the choas so much.

I think to answer your question the best path forward is to continue as is with economic growth targets but also on a political level to be relentless in not accepting that what exists now is remotely good enough. Bring the problems up front and centre and never stop talking about them. Cuties inertia seemed to be particularly strong in India. That said India has some of the brightest minds in the world at the moment and has developed amazing capabilities so the problem isn't insurmountable if it is acknowledged and faced head on.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#143

Post by lozf »

kshacker wrote: post #119
sandGorgon wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is super accurate. Fyi - new Delhi has the most stringent vehicular regulations in India. All commercial vehicles in Delhi run on natural gas - both petrol and diesel are banned. India's pollution levels are not industrial or vehicular - they are agriculture waste burning. And they are timed with agricultural harvesting cycles. We have super fragmented farmlands who are really poor and this causes bad practices…

Is that really true? Delhi has banned "registration" of such vehicles sure, but vehicles from nearby states (Haryana, Punjab, UP) and others are aplenty on the roads and allowed to fill petrol or diesel. Yes the ban has led to significant impact just pointing out that significant sources of air pollution remain.

I'd noticed that most cabs have out of state plates, and now I know why - thanks.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#144

Post by msiyer »

nyrulez wrote: post #40
rorykoehler wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about the move of manufacturing to India. Whilst I would like Indians to be economically successful I can't ignore the ecological disaster that is happening in their country. It is absolutely terrifying. The air in Mumbai was unbreathable when I visited and it wasn't even ranking remotely near the top in the most polluted city air in India at the time (Delhi's was 3x as bad). Adding to this the…

I'm afraid you are right but people in India don't seem to care. I go there every year and life there compared to 10 years ago is night and day. Even in cities that are further away from the big 4 (e.g. north of New Delhi, even in Himachal Pradesh which used to be very clean as the Himalayas start there) have an extremely visible layer of smog, especially in winters. Pollution is pretty bad and water shortage is beco…

Half a decade ago, I visited some very distant relatives in Delhi. I woke up at night unable to breathe properly. The next morning, when I told them about my ordeal, people boasted about their ability to breathe such air and laughed at my inability. The situation has not improved.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#145

Post by krageon »

mindfulplay wrote: post #136
krageon wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If all the "developing countries" don't learn from developed countries' mistakes everyone will be poor 100 years from now, because it'll keep going to shit same as it is now.

Again a priority for the US.. Imagine if British in late 1700s had said and made sure that "we will only hand off this beautiful country to you if you abolish slavery". It took a whopping 100 years before anything happened. These are all imagined, self-righteous concerns. Leave a country to sort out its own misery in its own time. We have meddled and tortured enough out of these countries already. If there is any pri…

I don't know why you're so into the United States and more importantly, I don't follow what you're saying at all. Are you implying here that country-level concerns are more important than global concerns?

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#146

Post by Ambele »

unexpected wrote: post #47
rorykoehler wrote: post #25

I have mixed feelings about the move of manufacturing to India. Whilst I would like Indians to be economically successful I can't ignore the ecological disaster that is happening in their country. It is absolutely terrifying. The air in Mumbai was unbreathable when I visited and it wasn't even ranking remotely near the top in the most polluted city air in India at the time (Delhi's was 3x as bad). Adding to this the…

Let's use your reasons, but look at it from the opposite side: 1) The largest contributor to the poor air quality in India is the practice of burning to clear fields, cook stoves that use wood, and the burning of cow dung [ https://www.vox.com/2018/5/8/17316978/india-pollution-levels... ]. One easy way to bring these people out of poverty is to provide them with good economic opportunities (like factory jobs!). High-…

Yes, there's a saying that "if a couple has 10 kids in America and 1 dies, it's a tragedy. If a couple has 10 kids in India and 4 die, it's good odds." It's plausible to assume some couples might be hedging their bets however morbid that is. I'm an American that visited India for a few months and would like offer a different point of view. Buying condoms in India is still an embarrassing task since you have to stand within a line crammed full of people, look a shopkeeper in the eyes, and ask him or her to rummage around for whatever condom boxes he/she has in his/her rubbermaid containers. Lol, YC2020 could be condom vending machines in India that accept rupees >.>. Just about all of India's problems stem from the Tragedy of the Commons.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#147

Post by Ambele »

pushtheenvelope wrote: post #140
rorykoehler wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not patronising at all. It's the reality. They got major shit to deal with. We all do but theirs is on another scale. Pretending they don't because of some misguided fear of being seen as patronising doesn't change it one bit. Like I said I hope they are successful as I hope we all are so we emerge from this existential threat together stronger and more wise but I fear for a place like India based on what I saw…

I felt it was patronizing because the original article is about manufacturing progress in a country that has been notoriously behind the curve on manufacturing. Making iphones is not what one normally associates as a dirty or polluting industrial effort. Instead of directly discussing the merit (or not) of this move by Apple, you chose to bring up an unrelated topic of general environmental problems in India. Lets im…

> Would you have brought up other social/political/environmental challenges that Texas faces (oh i don't know, like racial equity, or floods)?

Yes. For examples, look at the top comments for the top three HN articles on Foxconn in Wisconsin.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#148

Post by pushtheenvelope »

Ambele wrote: post #147
pushtheenvelope wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I felt it was patronizing because the original article is about manufacturing progress in a country that has been notoriously behind the curve on manufacturing. Making iphones is not what one normally associates as a dirty or polluting industrial effort. Instead of directly discussing the merit (or not) of this move by Apple, you chose to bring up an unrelated topic of general environmental problems in India. Lets im…

> Would you have brought up other social/political/environmental challenges that Texas faces (oh i don't know, like racial equity, or floods)? Yes. For examples, look at the top comments for the top three HN articles on Foxconn in Wisconsin.

sure! lets do this exercise.

1. I did a google search of "site:news.ycombinator.com Foxconn in Wisconsin", and opened the top 3 links.

2. first link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19037625. The top comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19038615) seems to be about cronyism and corruption in the terms offered to Foxconn by the Wisconsis government? I could be a bit off, i haven't followed that story closely. But, and this is important, its not about generalized corruption, its about corruption on this Foxconn deal!

3. second link: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18328772. here the top comment (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18329445) is directly quoting the article about Foxconn getting exemptions from the environmental laws in Wisconsin. This is directly relevant to the article posted, again not about generic environmental concerns.

4. third link https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19630358. This one doesn't have much commentary, but here we see irrelevant comments which are not directly tied to the article, which are much in the vein of the original comment above.

Does that help clarify my position, and why comments of this nature are not helpful? Its totally fine to bring up environmental/social/political concerns, if they are relevant. They are not in this case.

Re: Apple begins exporting India-made iPhones to European markets

#149

Post by handedness »

vbezhenar wrote: post #105
handedness wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ll continue to receive security updates.

It's nice to know, thanks. I wonder why they decide to drop support of those quite modern phones. I could understand when they dropped support for old phones with slow CPU and tiny RAM, or when they dropped support for 32 bit. But iPhone SE is very powerful device, for example.

iOS 13 supports the SE: https://www.apple.com/ios/ios-13-preview/
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