YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube • Hacker News Board

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#361

Post by dalbasal » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 8:11 PM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #348

dalbasal wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would?

In the original comment you mentioned the open web put roadblocks in the way of progress due to idealism. So, if you could say what those roadblocks were, and how the idealism supported them ... Presumably you're not accusing "open web" activists of having ideals that favour inhibiting bandwidth, or hosting content on slow servers, so noting that proprietary ["closed"] services had those facets is irrelevant to your…

No. I just meant that for whatever reason (a large array), closed ( different types of closed) solutions like Facebook and YouTube were more user friendly for the majority who came online post-2000... and these things played a prominent role in moving things forward.

Flash made online video work. Facebook & YouTube made contributing & sharing content accessible. IRC, host-your-own webpages, later attempts like RSS and such, which were more idealistically "www" were also not right for Aunt May. They were right for 1990 users, who were a self-selected bunch.. not alway representative of the majority.

Even jewels like Wikipedia (a brilliant achievement of the www idealism, imo) are relatively inaccessible (the editting part) to the average person. That works very well for Wikipedia specifically.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#362

Post by kdbg » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 8:17 PM UTC

ggg2 wrote: post #341

kdbg wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll actually be a counter example to that, I recently started a security podcast with a couple friends, talking about the latest in exploit development and mitigations, and whatever news we find interesting. Shortly after we uploaded our 4th episode we were banned on Youtube. We appealed the ban and were allowed back on pretty quickly (hours) and we are by no means a large channel even now (~50 subs).

I'm happy for you that you speak a language google happens to have support in, and that you have the time to besides creating and uploading content, to monitor it is not censored at a later, random, date by google. And that you were able to provide the US based documentation they required and that your videos content happened to not be in the blacklist of any nation state. /s (I guess)

> And that you were able to provide the US based documentation

I don't recall needing to provide any documentation? I'm also not American so I couldn't provide "US Based documentation" whatever that means.

There also wasn't any back and forth interaction with support to get unbanned.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#363

Post by xfitm3 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 9:39 PM UTC

2Ccltvcm wrote: post #352

YouTube needs to accelerate their banning process so they can become solely focused on mainstream psychological brainwashing clickbait. This way my favorite creators can actually move to other freer platforms and get paid without fascist payment processors and trying to abide by YouTube's insane terms and conditions. YouTube is going the way of cable TV channels dedicated to infomercials. The interesting stuff will b…

I donated to youtube-dl and started archiving my favorite channels.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#364

Post by username444 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:00 PM UTC

peter_d_sherman wrote: post #353

The problem here is that "hacking techniques" to a black hat are also, equal-and-oppositely, legitimate security research and prevention -- to a white hat / security researcher / ethical hacker... In other words, they're aspects of the same thing... The idea that you're going to ban something because one aspect of it has a negative social purpose is philosophically unsound... We don't ban videos on electricity or ele…

Ironically, I tracked the real world identity of someone using stolen credit cards in my ecom site BECAUSE he posted a tutorial/how-to on YouTube showing the vulnerability tool (script kiddie), under his real name. SMH.

This won't stop this information from being disseminated, but it may save some idiots from themselves.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#365

Post by gdulli » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:34 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #334

scoutt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be so pessimistic. There are still plenty of resources and places to discuss whatever you want. Youtube is like that big commercial avenue in the city, where you can only see mainstream stuff. If you look for the bookstore that has hacking/engineering/pyscology books, you'll have to go elsewhere. But it has always been this way.

YouTube used to be that place.... I remember it, I want that YouTube Back... YouTube did not become popular with "mainstream stuff" if I wanted "mainstream stuff" I would still be a cable TV Subscriber YouTube promoting only "mainstream stuff" like CBS, and CNN will kill YouTube

YouTube got popular with mainstream TV shows and movies. Then after it won all the market share with that content, Google bought it and turned it legit.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#366

Post by justinclift » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 10:44 PM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #173

roenxi wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t know how he predicted so far ahead at the time, it’s humbling. As I cast my eye over the FSF's basic definition of free software [0] I can't spot much of a mystery. If a user don't have those freedoms, then someone else is in control of their software. It is inevitable that sooner or later the situation will change and the person who does have control the software is going to do disagree with what the user…

It's intriguing to witness this phenomenon live, for example with Google: first we were all in love with it, so refreshing, fast, humble when compared with Yahoo, Lycos et all. We loved their "do no evil" mantra. When they started to offer their free e-mail, we were queueing to migrate. Then the phenomenon you're describing started to happen and people are struggling to de-googlify their lives only to discover it's a…

> ... first we were all in love with it

People commonly seem to express this idea. That's not actually true.

Plenty of people haven't believed the PR from day one. What you're seeing now, is the reason why.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#367

Post by unicornmama » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 11:27 PM UTC

save_ferris wrote: post #46

bouncycastle wrote: post #8

It's like banning Karate & Judo because it teaches violence. (When it actually improves personal security/safety)

Or banning gun videos because they could teach someone how to shoot up a school. It’s no surprise YouTube opted not to censor this genre based on their workplace shooting incident. Companies are getting more and more paranoid these days.

Big advertisers dictate what content is allowed on YouTube. Corporations like Disney and Coca Cola get to decide what we can watch.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#368

Post by xfitm3 » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 11:28 PM UTC

mooselumps wrote: post #326

beaconstudios wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's plenty of niche content that finds its home on YouTube. It's as if the commercial avenue was infinitely large and could contain every shop you could wish for.

You have to leave the avenue for porn. Pornhub has good enough porn, can find something for most any niche. Soon you’ll find though, if you’re really into this or that, individual studios that cater to your niche create videos with high production value that are all around better than what you dig up on pornhub. There are marketplaces for small studios like clips4sale.com (nsfw). Also aggregators for specific niches…

You have to know what you're looking for, which I think is traditionally the biggest hurtle.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#369

Post by verisimilitudes » Thu, Jul 04, 2019, 11:35 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #359

jlawson wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They control the pathways of modern speech. It's not like a baker where you can just get your wedding cake somewhere else. If Google doesn't like you they can damn near erase you from public view. If you have an internet business they can ruin it. There is no way to escape their influence. Because of this, they have a responsibility to uphold people's natural right to expression. In many ways Google now has more cont…

>They control the pathways of modern speech. Not true. Almost all modern speech doesn't take place on Youtube or any Google platform. It's possible to broadcast without Google, publish without Google, disseminate without Google, gather without Google, dissent without Google, make phone calls without Google, chat, email, text, audio, video, everything - literally all forms of speech and expression are possible without…

>Plenty of people Google "doesn't like" are still in public view. Name one person Google has effectively "disappeared" in this way, and I'll bet they still have a presence elsewhere on the web, still participate in society, still can communicate publicly, be contacted, etc.

Alex Jones was attacked by Google, Twitter, Facebook, and Apple in a short span of time and this certainly does bring noticeable harm. Your argument that Google isn't a monopoly so much as a participant in an oligopoly is pointless.

>Maybe. But then so could Amazon. So could your ISP. If losing SEO would ruin your business, the problem isn't Google's power, it's your crappy business model.

It's amusing how people raise this same argument about advertising and how newspapers or other publications can die for all they care, but then newspapers are ''important to Democracy'' and shouldn't need to exist like others do and the other publications are just trying to make end's meet and can't do anything else. Maybe letting large businesses buy or crush everything else is a bad idea?

>Really? Do they control you here?

No.

>In your home?

No.

>Do they moderate other sites?

Yes. Large chunks of the WWW contain Google malware or are at the behest of Cloudflare and that makes avoiding these two difficult, as it's likely at least one place one visits is involved with one or the other. I can't even contact some businesses because of Gmail and its strangulation of the email protocols and with ReCaptcha it becomes increasingly harder to do certain things without giving Google free work.

>Almost every part of your comment is falsehood, hyperbole and nonsense.

You're either misguided or purposefully arguing in bad faith.

Re: YouTube's ban on “hacking techniques” threatens to shut down infosec YouTube

#370

Post by KirinDave » Fri, Jul 05, 2019, 12:02 AM UTC

0xfeba wrote: post #342

ggg2 wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy for you that you speak a language google happens to have support in, and that you have the time to besides creating and uploading content, to monitor it is not censored at a later, random, date by google. And that you were able to provide the US based documentation they required and that your videos content happened to not be in the blacklist of any nation state. /s (I guess)

YouTube is a private company. They are under no obligation to provide support in 5,000 different languages. Or to host your videos at all. This post reeks of entitlement.

You're not wrong, but it's also bad customer service. Given Youtube has essentially no credible competition, you'd think that they'd be more worried about being the focus of multiple new national government regulatory frameworks.

The important think to recognize about Youtube (as opposed to search, or ads) is that YouTube has no real competition and it's absurdly difficult to compete with Youtube. They're like Facebook but moreso. As such, they may end up being subject to different rules from other businesses if they're not careful.