Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows • Hacker News Board

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#161

Post by laughinghan » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

larkost wrote: post #112

simion314 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe this, what damage did Apple(or other company) brand get because you can change the battery in the laptops?

Apple has been dinged repeatedly when people use bad third-party chargers that destabilize the batteries. Why do you think it would be any different for the batteries.

Even supposing this were true, the right solution to Apple being hurt by misinformation is not restricting device owners' control over their own devices. The right solution is for the public to get better information about what faults iPhones do and don't have, and the quality of service by repair vendors.

(And I do very much doubt this is true. What makes you think so? Can you show a correlation between news reports about bad third-party chargers that destabilize the battery and stock price drops or something?)

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#162

Post by hutzlibu » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:20 PM UTC

organsnyder wrote: post #146

busterarm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google sells phones too. That nearly everyone in this thread has missed this fact so far is baffling.

Their ad revenue must be several orders of magnitude higher than their phone sales revenue, though.

But not higher than their repair ad revenue, nor their value in their buisnes relations to apple.

But I suspect in this case it is more likely a "don't care" attitude from google to that small market.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#163

Post by mattkevan » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:21 PM UTC

tsss wrote: post #61

isolli wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried advertising on DuckDuckGo? There's not as much traffic, but it could be worth it.

How many people do you know who use DuckDuckGo? How many of them would consider a repair shop instead of doing it themselves?

I use DDG and would consider going to a repair shop. Used to fix them myself, but stopped around the iPhone 6 era as they became too fiddly to bother.

The last straw was when I knackered a motherboard because I mixed up two screws and severed a vital copper trace. So frustrating.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#164

Post by laughinghan » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

SamuelAdams wrote: post #91

patricius wrote: post #48

I would like, just for once, that a company comes out and straight up says: “We choose how to make our products, you choose whether you want to buy it.” That’s everything there is to it. Don’t use any other arguments like “We do it to protect you.”

That works fine on a consumer level. Most products have competitors. But B2B customers have far less leeway. John Deere is a great example: they have (virtually) a monopoly on the farming business. As a result, farmers cannot purchase a competitors tractors / equipment. They either don't exist or require too many compromises, which ultimately impact profits. In the case of modern farming, "not buying John Deere" is t…

I think the comment you're replying to is expressing frustration with disingenuous PR, not endorsing a market structure.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#165

Post by WrtCdEvrydy » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:23 PM UTC

ddalex wrote: post #139

judge2020 wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People can still find the business by searching " repair shop" as well as possibly "repair ship " but the issue is not being able to advertise on terms like "fix iphone 8" or "ifixit iphone".

Not to be that guy, but why do you feel you are entitled to advertise on somebody else's trademark?

Free Market... and the fact Google allows it.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#166

Post by blotter_paper » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:25 PM UTC

JaimeThompson wrote: post #132

blotter_paper wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your selected example has a negative externality of being deadly to bystanders if driven on a public roadway, and a more measured man might make some stipulation about such a vehicle only being driven on private land, but this is fundamentally how I feel. If I want to die in a flaming wreck, or if I want to accept a chance of dying in a flaming wreck in exchange for a discount on material goods, I don't want well-mea…

Isn't not being able to replace / recycle the batteries in products a negative externality?

Without mounting an argument that others have to buy such products due to market forces, no, because the issue only affects the consumer and not those around them. A lack of security updates and no way to roll your own is more in the ballpark, since your IoT-whatever could be borged into a botnet and used to cause further damage, but even that seems like a reach compared to the danger of an exploding automobile.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#167

Post by IX-103 » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:27 PM UTC

organsnyder wrote: post #146

busterarm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google sells phones too. That nearly everyone in this thread has missed this fact so far is baffling.

Their ad revenue must be several orders of magnitude higher than their phone sales revenue, though.

Yeah, I think they've practically been losing money on phones since they started. I mean they're not losing YouTube levels of money, but it's not very profitable. And anyway compared to any search ads everything else is peanuts.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#168

Post by jrockway » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:32 PM UTC

This all shows what an absolute disaster the DMCA was; how poorly thought out it was, how unconsidered the consequences were, and how badly our legislators failed us... to give Hollywood a little extra cash. We should be outraged.

It all started as "hey, these damn kids are stealing our musics". So they made a law with "broad bipartisan support" to punish those evil evil people that were sharing their CDs with other people. But then other people realized, "hey, we can use this to make money." Now it's copyright infringement to repair your tractor. They keep the DMCA alive by carving out tiny exemptions every few years... but never addressing the core of the law. We should not accept random tweaks and amendments to this toxic law.

I think it's time to move to a post-DMCA world. It was illegal to pirate stuff before the DMCA. Just go prosecute that if you think it's a policing priority. We don't need a special law, as it clearly makes possible too much abuse. Don't like someone? DMCA their website. Want extra money for your tractor? Make repairing it "circumventing a content protection system." This is actively harmful to society, and the special interest group that is Hollywood just doesn't matter enough for it to be a good compromise. Get the DMCA out of here.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#169

Post by hutzlibu » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:36 PM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #47

s1512783 wrote: post #3

"Providing open access to the technical specifications of consumer electronics would enable criminals to “more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network,” and "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" Of course they're doing it all for…

> "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" They do have a point on emission controls, though. Pretty much every person I know that owns a diesel car has either ripped out or plans to rip out the particulate filter. Doesn't matter that it's illegal, doesn't matter that it hurts everyone around. People just don'…

"but we also need alternative ways to stop socially irresponsible people"

How about regular car inspections? And if you say they don't work because of bribery, then that is a different problem, which can be solved by inspections of car inspections and fines that do hurt.

But I suppose the real problem is that many people does not really believe, that it is really a problem, so no political support then to stop this behavior.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#170

Post by strombofulous » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 7:38 PM UTC

paulddraper wrote: post #159

komali2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welp, there it is. As clear cut a case of the dangers of Google basically holding the keys to the internet for the masses as I've ever seen. How's the ads on Facebook and Instagram doing?

Objectively, Facebook ads have recently gotten _a lot_ worse because they removed most of the targeting abilities. Targeting was always the competitive edge FB had. (Whether this an overall good or bad thing I leave as an exercise to the reader.)

Wait, why? I thought the whole point of facebook being super invasive was so they could use that data for advertisers