Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 249 posts

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#131

Post by thefiregecko »

feocco wrote: post #10
aurizon wrote: post #2

You should have this basic right to repair. If you are unable to repair it and even break it further, it will cost you more for the company to repair it. This right should have the right to have the repair company to connect it and scan it, for a nominal fee, and tell you what is broken and what they would charge. You can then decide. With the complexity of modern devices, you may have to go to another company with s…

Forcing a company to have a diagnostic tool or team to identify a problem you might not have them fix is silly IMO. So is forcing their hand on creating a repairable product. I don't expect Microsoft to be able to easily identify obscure hardware issues with a design like my Surface Book 2. I do expect them to create a hardware product that doesn't break easily. Supplying the specs is a big benefit in my purchase dec…

> Forcing a company to have a diagnostic tool or team to identify a problem you might not have them fix is silly IMO.

As a counter point, OBD-2 works and everyone can use it.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#132

Post by JaimeThompson »

blotter_paper wrote: post #128
quanticle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic cars shouldn't have to abide by crash safety regulations. If you want a safe car, buy a Volvo. Everyone else can drive deathtraps that burst into flames if they're so much as dented.

Your selected example has a negative externality of being deadly to bystanders if driven on a public roadway, and a more measured man might make some stipulation about such a vehicle only being driven on private land, but this is fundamentally how I feel. If I want to die in a flaming wreck, or if I want to accept a chance of dying in a flaming wreck in exchange for a discount on material goods, I don't want well-mea…

Isn't not being able to replace / recycle the batteries in products a negative externality?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#133

Post by driverdan »

tomatotomato37 wrote: post #84
TeMPOraL wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" They do have a point on emission controls, though. Pretty much every person I know that owns a diesel car has either ripped out or plans to rip out the particulate filter. Doesn't matter that it's illegal, doesn't matter that it hurts everyone around. People just don'…

Do you only know car enthusiasts? Most regular people probably don't even know diesels have an extra particulate filter, yet care enough to actively modify their car to circumvent it; it's hard enough convincing them that their oil needs to be changed more than once a decade. There's no point beyond regular vehicle inspections to go after the 0.01% of the population that are car enthusiasts willing to modify their ve…

> Most regular people probably don't even know diesels have an extra particulate filter

I doubt that. Vehicles with a DPF have an indicator of when they're going through a regen cycle.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#134

Post by cycrutchfield »

quanticle wrote: post #108
sokoloff wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of choice on consumers and suppliers. Why should supermarkets be able to offer discounted products, sometimes below their cost, as loss-leaders to get people into the store? Why should airlines be allowed to give away free flights via frequent flier programs? If Gillette wants to sell me a $5 razor handle for $2 because it can only use $1 blades from them, why should that be barred as an offer on their part t…

Because it causes massive unsustainable externalities when that business model is applied by many firms across the economy as a whole? The only reason that manufacturers can get away with planned obsolescence is because they don't have to pay any disposal fees to recycle/remanufacture their equipment. If they took a hit to their bottom line every time a consumer threw out their product, I'm willing to be they'd desig…

... how much do you think device disposal actually costs?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#135

Post by TeMPOraL »

blotter_paper wrote: post #128
quanticle wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By that logic cars shouldn't have to abide by crash safety regulations. If you want a safe car, buy a Volvo. Everyone else can drive deathtraps that burst into flames if they're so much as dented.

Your selected example has a negative externality of being deadly to bystanders if driven on a public roadway, and a more measured man might make some stipulation about such a vehicle only being driven on private land, but this is fundamentally how I feel. If I want to die in a flaming wreck, or if I want to accept a chance of dying in a flaming wreck in exchange for a discount on material goods, I don't want well-mea…

> Your selected example has a negative externality

So does planned obsolescence.

> If I want to die in a flaming wreck, or if I want to accept a chance of dying in a flaming wreck in exchange for a discount on material goods, I don't want well-meaning bureaucrats to gavel about telling me I can't do it because they know what's best for me.

The well-meaning bureaucrats aren't out there to take away your freedom. They're there for all the other people - people who aren't anywhere close to being perfectly rational market players engaging in fully voluntary exchange of goods. History teaches us that if the market can get away with unsafe goods, not only it will, but those goods will become the only thing available to people without lots of discretionary income (i.e. most of the population). The only way to prevent this is by not allowing the market to even go there.

> We all make tradeoffs and take chances in life, and you wouldn't like me telling you which tradeoffs and chances to take, so why should you get to tell me which tradeoffs and chances to take?

Again, you're technically in control of which side of a tradeoff you pick, but you aren't in control of how the sides balance out. It's easy for the market to price the tradeoff in such a way that most people are forced to take the option that's harmful to them, or society at large. I might not like you telling me which tradeoffs to take, but I would appreciate if you were able to take some of the things forced on me and turn them around, or at least back into real tradeoffs.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#136

Post by inetknght »

Topgamer7 wrote: post #116
Zak wrote: post #68

> John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures. On an analog car, I can physically remove emissions control devices. I can short circuit the seat belt warning. I can pull a fuse and disable the (not quite analog) antilock brakes. I can fail to change the tires when they have an unsafe amount of tread. I'm less familiar with farm equi…

Ah its a similar issue with Deere equipment, however they can just make the tool not function if a full systems check doesn't return with Deere approved values.

> they can just make the tool not function if a full systems check doesn't return with Deere approved values

That is the problem.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#137

Post by noelsusman »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #64
_Codemonkeyism wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You got a dirt cheap printer because you're paying with supplies. Printer heads are the normal price.

> You got a dirt cheap printer because you're paying with supplies. Give me one good reason why this particular business model - base subsidized by consumables - shouldn't be straight up banned. I can't think of any.

It's cheaper for most people.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#138

Post by cr0sh »

jschwartzi wrote: post #69
mulmen wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean like emission testing? What happens in 15 years when that particulate filter wears out and nobody can fix it but the rest of the car is fine?

Replacement parts aren't an issue for motor vehicles. In 2013 when I was still driving a 1995 GMC 1500 I could still easily source replacement parts for it, including replacement headlight trim rings, replacement fuel injectors, replacement fuel pumps, replacement throttle bodies, etc. etc.. So that's not an argument that holds any water whatsoever with me. Worst case in 15 years there will be a few shops around the…

> Replacement parts aren't an issue for motor vehicles.

Tell that to my Isuzu VehiCROSS!

Had mine in the shop to wait 6 months to find a -used- intake manifold...sigh.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#139

Post by ddalex »

judge2020 wrote: post #100
hyperbovine wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If independent repair shops can't be found on Google, is that Google and Apple's way of muting third-party repair? Disappearing from Adwords is not the same as disappearing from Google.

People can still find the business by searching " repair shop" as well as possibly "repair ship " but the issue is not being able to advertise on terms like "fix iphone 8" or "ifixit iphone".

Not to be that guy, but why do you feel you are entitled to advertise on somebody else's trademark?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#140

Post by noelsusman »

naikrovek wrote: post #124

I hate that Deere is singularly picked on, here. Other vehicle manufacturers have followed in John Deere's footsteps with this, and no one cites those manufacturers' actions; only John Deere. I guess it's because they were first?

People like farmers, and John Deere is the closest to having a monopoly in their industry.
Post reply on HN