Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows • Hacker News Board

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#21

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

olliej wrote: post #7

I’m generally pro-right to repair bills but I’m not clear how far they can reasonably go - should companies that make phones or whatever with custom cpus (Apple, Samsung, etc with completely custom chips or custom configurations - arm licensees etc) be required to sell those chips freely? I’m not trying to be unreasonable: being able to replace a broken screen without replacing the entire device is reasonable, but th…

I think the barrier should be drawn at not trying to prevent the boards being re-sold; fabricating an entirely new one from scratch may be infeasible, but they will turn up on the secondary market.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#22

Post by lostmyoldone » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:47 PM UTC

s1512783 wrote: post #3

"Providing open access to the technical specifications of consumer electronics would enable criminals to “more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network,” and "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" Of course they're doing it all for…

Yeah, it's absolutely infuriating, especially when you know how most businesses tend to ignore any and all security measures not forced by law, or widespread customer revolt.

One of the worst arguments imo is that argument about emission control circumvention. It's so disingenuous it makes me almost sick. Sure, protecting the environment is critically important - at least in my opinion - but it's certainly not this supposed mass of people circumventing emission controls that are the real criminals when it comes to environmental damage. Businesses seems to proudly, and continually, carry that torch by themselves. As long as not laws or widespread public outcry makes it impossible for them to make business, environmental damage is a absolutely ignored by all but a very few.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#23

Post by pjc50 » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:50 PM UTC

minipci1321 wrote: post #5

s1512783 wrote: post #3

"Providing open access to the technical specifications of consumer electronics would enable criminals to “more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network,” and "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" Of course they're doing it all for…

> It's such a blatant lie. yes and no. Most today's CE devices lose 3/4 of their utility when disconnected from their shared medium. People running such mediums usually require some sort of certification from the participant devices, and in case the device has been modified, a re-certification after modifications is usually required. Even replacing a couple of diodes by a looking-close-on-paper analogue might harm pe…

> let you imagine what one could do with arbitrary firmware images on a fully unlocked device.

You could .. avoid paying the manufacturer's fees for re-enabling features that the firmware has disabled? You could refill your ink cartridges?

Bad actors at this layer seem to be quite rare. And the whole reason everyone uses the unlicensed bands is the freedom to transmit (and expectation of recieving) arbitrary signals.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#24

Post by _1 » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

someguydave wrote: post #17

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

Why is that scenario Apple’s problem?

Because people only read headlines

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#25

Post by komali2 » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:52 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #18

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tec…

Welp, there it is. As clear cut a case of the dangers of Google basically holding the keys to the internet for the masses as I've ever seen.

How's the ads on Facebook and Instagram doing?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#26

Post by artursapek » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

I recently discovered Louis Rossman's Youtube channel and it planted a virus in my head to make me want to try much harder to repair things.

Recently my water bottle leaked on my $2000 Thinkpad and fried the LAN card. Ubuntu started complaining that it couldn't find the Wireless adapter to find wifi networks. I think a couple years ago, I'd have just thrown in the towel right away and bought a new computer. Instead I did some research and found a $20 replacement card on Amazon. It took me 15 minutes to fix my laptop. I felt a great sense of pride afterwards for avoiding a great amount of environmental and financial waste.

Same thing with my $200 coffee grinder. It stopped grinding beans properly. I did some research and found the usual cause was a thin plastic piece inside the grinder would crack and become loose. After 5 years of ownership I had previously considered just buying a new one because "well it's pretty old". But instead I found the small plastic part on Baratza's website and successfully repaired my grinder. It cost me $8 and 20 minutes of my time.

I think I'm becoming a repair extremist and will probably start to annoy people by insisting on taking this route whenever possible. It seems like American culture cares very little about repairing/mending things. It seems like people expect everything to break and use it as a cue to buy a new one. It's really sad, especially because I think we were intentionally trained to think that way.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#27

Post by Drakim » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:54 PM UTC

olliej wrote: post #7

I’m generally pro-right to repair bills but I’m not clear how far they can reasonably go - should companies that make phones or whatever with custom cpus (Apple, Samsung, etc with completely custom chips or custom configurations - arm licensees etc) be required to sell those chips freely? I’m not trying to be unreasonable: being able to replace a broken screen without replacing the entire device is reasonable, but th…

Indeed, however, there are certain "no brain" borders we can cross right away. For instance, it should not be illegal to repair your device. But ouch, we have already made ourselves an enemy of huge parts of several big industries.

The world is a bit crazy sometimes.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#28

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

ericabiz wrote: post #18

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair": I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running. Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tec…

You might want to contact the Justice Department to contribute to their anti trust investigation against Google.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#29

Post by olliej » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:55 PM UTC

Buttons840 wrote: post #12

olliej wrote: post #7

I’m generally pro-right to repair bills but I’m not clear how far they can reasonably go - should companies that make phones or whatever with custom cpus (Apple, Samsung, etc with completely custom chips or custom configurations - arm licensees etc) be required to sell those chips freely? I’m not trying to be unreasonable: being able to replace a broken screen without replacing the entire device is reasonable, but th…

In many scenarios, simply having the company not sue you if you did get your hands on a CPU replacent is an improvemt.

Except if the company doesn’t sell those cpus separately, in which case you know you’re buying stolen goods.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#30

Post by blotter_paper » Thu, Jun 20, 2019, 3:56 PM UTC

feocco wrote: post #10

aurizon wrote: post #2

You should have this basic right to repair. If you are unable to repair it and even break it further, it will cost you more for the company to repair it. This right should have the right to have the repair company to connect it and scan it, for a nominal fee, and tell you what is broken and what they would charge. You can then decide. With the complexity of modern devices, you may have to go to another company with s…

Forcing a company to have a diagnostic tool or team to identify a problem you might not have them fix is silly IMO. So is forcing their hand on creating a repairable product. I don't expect Microsoft to be able to easily identify obscure hardware issues with a design like my Surface Book 2. I do expect them to create a hardware product that doesn't break easily. Supplying the specs is a big benefit in my purchase dec…

This. I totally want to buy repairable products, and do when I can, but I don't wish to force other consumers to pay extra to cover the expenses of a feature I want.