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Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

arstechnica.com

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Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#11

Post by s1512783 »

woliveirajr wrote: post #4

Having my HP printer just failed because of something was wrong on the printer head (and replacing the printer head alone costs more than the printer, and is a easy job as it was made to be easily replaced), I'm always mad that a part costs equal or more than the whole thing. Any kind of "locked-in" to repair anything should always be against the law: no one should be allowed to charge more for a part than it charges…

> no one should be allowed to charge more for a part than it charges for the whole

I think that's a dangerous route to follow. I completely agree with right to repair legislation, but I can also imagine a situation where a company makes ten thousand of something and sells it in a year through a retailer, and then keeps replacement parts available for a long time. Warehousing, inventory, service and delivery costs could easily make parts cost more than the original item.

I once went to a lecture given by someone from Boeing. He said that when they use an obscure electronic part in their aircraft, and it reaches End of Life, they buy all the stock they can get hold of, store it in a very secure location, and charge a lot for it. The real value of this part is way larger than the original manufacturing costs would imply. It doesn't cost as much as a plane, but if your plane cannot fly without it, then it's pretty darn close.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#12

Post by Buttons840 »

olliej wrote: post #7

I’m generally pro-right to repair bills but I’m not clear how far they can reasonably go - should companies that make phones or whatever with custom cpus (Apple, Samsung, etc with completely custom chips or custom configurations - arm licensees etc) be required to sell those chips freely? I’m not trying to be unreasonable: being able to replace a broken screen without replacing the entire device is reasonable, but th…

In many scenarios, simply having the company not sue you if you did get your hands on a CPU replacent is an improvemt.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#13

Post by JoshTko »

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#14

Post by chipperyman573 »

minipci1321 wrote: post #5
s1512783 wrote: post #3

"Providing open access to the technical specifications of consumer electronics would enable criminals to “more easily circumvent security protections, harming not only the product owner but also everyone who shares their network,” and "On the other end, John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures" Of course they're doing it all for…

> It's such a blatant lie. yes and no. Most today's CE devices lose 3/4 of their utility when disconnected from their shared medium. People running such mediums usually require some sort of certification from the participant devices, and in case the device has been modified, a re-certification after modifications is usually required. Even replacing a couple of diodes by a looking-close-on-paper analogue might harm pe…

If you design a system where remote users are impacted by other remote users' malicious actions, you've just created a bad system. "Criminals" can still do anything they want to the firmware of a JD, it's just illegal. Nothing actually stops them. But if JD designed a system that prevented local modification from affecting others, then they wouldn't have this problem.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#15

Post by legohead »

olliej wrote: post #7

I’m generally pro-right to repair bills but I’m not clear how far they can reasonably go - should companies that make phones or whatever with custom cpus (Apple, Samsung, etc with completely custom chips or custom configurations - arm licensees etc) be required to sell those chips freely? I’m not trying to be unreasonable: being able to replace a broken screen without replacing the entire device is reasonable, but th…

If they are still creating those chips, yes, why not?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#16

Post by vuln »

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

Samsung sold exploding batteries, no third party repair needed.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#17

Post by someguydave »

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

Why is that scenario Apple’s problem?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#18

Post by ericabiz »

Here's another way Apple may be killing "right to repair":

I own a chain of independent cell phone and computer repair shops. Last year, Google unilaterally took away AdWords in our industry. The day after Thanksgiving, we woke up to find none of our ads were running.

Google claimed this was because "third-party tech support providers" were scamming customers--i.e. people were buying AdWords for virus removal and tech support queries and then trying to scam people for money.

Google also claimed an independent verification service was coming for those of us who had actual physical repair shops and weren't scamming people.

Despite Google's promises, none of this has been delivered. Our business has dropped significantly since AdWords disappeared 8 months ago. This Google action has really hurt legitimate small businesses.

I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair.

If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."

It reminds me of the quote from The Matrix: "Tell me, Mr. Anderson, what good is a phone call when you are unable to speak?" If independent repair shops can't be found on Google, is that Google and Apple's way of muting third-party repair?

Right when Google ads disappeared, Amazon and Apple made a deal that meant third parties could no longer sell Apple products on Amazon: https://9to5toys.com/2018/11/09/apple-and-amazon-deal-iphone...

This is just a reminder that Apple is fighting in every way possible against right to repair.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#19

Post by Aromasin »

woliveirajr wrote: post #4

Having my HP printer just failed because of something was wrong on the printer head (and replacing the printer head alone costs more than the printer, and is a easy job as it was made to be easily replaced), I'm always mad that a part costs equal or more than the whole thing. Any kind of "locked-in" to repair anything should always be against the law: no one should be allowed to charge more for a part than it charges…

>no one should be allowed to charge more for a part than it charges for the whole

I love right to repair policy as much as the next man, but I don't entirely agree with this statement. Certainly from my experience in the aerospace industry where some of the hardware is 20+ years old, the company might not have produced the product for the past decade and have none of the machines/molds/designs to make the part any longer, and it's a niche item so there are no spares. In that instance, we could well be looking at paying them upwards of £20k for something like a lighting bracket which we initially bought for £500, because we're effectively paying them to buy/build the machinery, redesigned the product, and replicate said part without any of the economies of scale they had initially - and it needs to be done because otherwise instead of a £20k bracket you're looking at a full multi-million pound redesign for something as minor as an obsolete part.

You can't expect people to pay stupid money to pay for spares, but likewise you can't expect businesses to keep equipment to manufacture products from decades ago for when the spares run dry, or expect them to have the gift of foresight to predict how many spares they'll need years down the line.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#20

Post by echelon »

JoshTko wrote: post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

The main thing any of these companies is trying to avoid is loss of control. Control over the ecosystem, control over profit.
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