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Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

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Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#111
post #62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?

She explained that in these two lines: > I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. > If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."

He explained that in these two lines:

(slight correction, it's "she explained")

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#112
post #13

I think the main thing that Apple here is trying to avoid is an iPhone catching on fire due to a 3rd party battery installed by a Mall Kisok repair shop guy who was hired a week ago. They know that the nuance will get lost and the story will become - iPhones catch on fire.

I do not believe this, what damage did Apple(or other company) brand get because you can change the battery in the laptops?

Apple has been dinged repeatedly when people use bad third-party chargers that destabilize the batteries. Why do you think it would be any different for the batteries.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to contact the Justice Department to contribute to their anti trust investigation against Google.

"Have you considered just phoning up the government?" has got to be the pinnacle of armchair activism.

"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#114
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain how it's Apple's fault. Google is unlikely to restrict advertising just because it's in Apple's interests. If Google didn't have a reason to do so in its own self-interest, Apple would have to use a threat or a bribe to get Google to reduce its own advertising revenue in this way. The comment provides no evidence of that.

You trust google more than I do. I'm sure there was a tit for tat exchange or back room deal if it went down. It wouldn't be the first time for these companies.

I don't trust Google in the sense I think you're implying. I have no trouble believing Google would do something unethical that it believed it would profit from and get away with. That includes back room deals.

But the original comment didn't offer any evidence of one. I'd like to know if there is any beyond it being a plausible explanation.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#115
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't explain how it's Apple's fault. Google is unlikely to restrict advertising just because it's in Apple's interests. If Google didn't have a reason to do so in its own self-interest, Apple would have to use a threat or a bribe to get Google to reduce its own advertising revenue in this way. The comment provides no evidence of that.

You trust google more than I do. I'm sure there was a tit for tat exchange or back room deal if it went down. It wouldn't be the first time for these companies.

Apple in the past has made back door deals to not hire the employees of other companies, I believe Google was one of them. Wouldn't surprise me if this was the case here.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#116
post #68

> John Deere argues that access to the company’s proprietary software could be used to bypass emissions controls or safety measures. On an analog car, I can physically remove emissions control devices. I can short circuit the seat belt warning. I can pull a fuse and disable the (not quite analog) antilock brakes. I can fail to change the tires when they have an unsafe amount of tread. I'm less familiar with farm equi…

Ah its a similar issue with Deere equipment, however they can just make the tool not function if a full systems check doesn't return with Deere approved values.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's such a blatant lie. yes and no. Most today's CE devices lose 3/4 of their utility when disconnected from their shared medium. People running such mediums usually require some sort of certification from the participant devices, and in case the device has been modified, a re-certification after modifications is usually required. Even replacing a couple of diodes by a looking-close-on-paper analogue might harm pe…

If you design a system where remote users are impacted by other remote users' malicious actions, you've just created a bad system. "Criminals" can still do anything they want to the firmware of a JD, it's just illegal. Nothing actually stops them. But if JD designed a system that prevented local modification from affecting others, then they wouldn't have this problem.

Absolutely agree! Also in that world, all engineers would be smart, given all the necessary information, all equipped with all expensive measurement tools, and be given enough time to do good work (and motivated to do that). After coming back home at 5pm, they would grab the same expensive measurement equipment and start hacking on their devices, putting in the same high quality and knowledge and high conscience.

Illegal? Criminal? Mind you, a noob replacing a diode without knowing better, like I said.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#118
post #62
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google screws you over and you blame Apple. How does that work?

She explained that in these two lines: > I write all of this because the prevailing theory in our industry is that this is Apple's way of fighting against right to repair. > If only Apple authorized service providers are allowed to advertise on Google for repair-related keywords, Apple will have taken more teeth out of "right to repair."

It's a hypothesis. It's also Google's call, and Google is the one they're paying for ads.

It's really seems like a stretch without any evidence or more detailed reasoned argument. I mean, why would Google support Apple in doing this?

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe this, what damage did Apple(or other company) brand get because you can change the battery in the laptops?

Apple has been dinged repeatedly when people use bad third-party chargers that destabilize the batteries. Why do you think it would be any different for the batteries.

Was that on a newspaper ? Because if some random guy posted an image on reddit it does not count. There are legitimate issues with genuine batteries and still Apple does not have a repitation of bad batteries , they have a reputation for the keyboards after months of denials and fanboys accusing users of using the keyboard wrong.

Re: Support for right-to-repair laws slowly grows

#120
I am generally in favor of being able to repair things, but this is complicated and I have yet to see a good discussion (let alone legislative proposal) that takes into account all of the nuance I see as necessary:

1. There has definitely been abuse of cryptographic locking by parties such as John Deer. I feel that places where such locking is used only to prevent third-party repairs it should be illegal.

2. I feel that manufacturers should have ways of showing that third-party repairs have been done, and so enable them to make reasonable denials of warranty claims when those repairs are the cause of damage (no idea how to codify that into law).

3. There are cases, such as the touch-id sensor on Apple's iPhone that are legitimate cases of cryptographic locking. Absent that there is no way for Apple to defend against hardware-based attacks without this locking, and they need to have some way of trusting technicians (and the hardware involved) who make replacements. There is a complicated conversation to be had here (an no-one seems to be having it).

4. Devices that are built to be repaired are in the general best-interests of everyone at large (e.g.: environmental issues), but the forces of capitalism are generally against reuse. So we clearly need some system to rebalance the scales a bit, but how to do this without killing progress seems difficult (e.g.: the system-on-a-chip makes most of the guts of a cell phone one piece, and that is the direction of better devices).

(edited for better spacing)

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