Why are we so pessimistic? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#91

Post by narnianal » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:53 AM UTC

Bakary wrote: post #43

narnianal wrote: post #11

Hoped for a scientific study, got philosophical bla bla. Yes, there are people, probably the author as well, who are resilient to actually seeing facts. Just as the joke about fat people and zombie apocalypses go: Be nice to them, they will save your life one day (by being crushed before you, thereby giving you a little more time to react). Still I'm a little sad about the lost opportunity. It's also true that people…

Ultimately even the people who supposedly "see reality" are just seeing a subjective mental model of it.

You probably have experienced two people fighting with each other, both only living in their own information bubble, both claiming to see the truth. I agree with you that your understanding goes deeper realizing that both are just as much true and untrue, and just as much good or bad.

But now comes the strange part. From this higher understanding you can't gain any more happiness. In fact either of them might be more happy than you, because living in a bubble doesn't just contain fake truths, it also contains fake meaning, and the times in which they can believe in these fake meanings are the times where these people will be more happy than you.

Thus you have more ability but less happiness. That's quite strange, right? Shouldn't more ability lead to more happiness? And if not, then why bother about having more ability?

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#92

Post by rdm_blackhole » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:59 AM UTC

thrower123 wrote: post #22

edraferi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s exactly the problem though. Post-Soviet states money-bombing our politics out from underneath us. We know where that leads and don’t want it at all. Unfortunately they’re good at it so it’s taking time to vote our way out of the mess.

The Russian propaganda canard is worrying, because it is this thought-terminator that prevents considering that there are actual people with real reasons for voting the way that they do. Are the Russian spy agencies conducting propaganda? Of course they are. Are they the reason Trump was elected, or people voted for Brexit, or the Yellow Vests are marching in Paris? Hell no.

I agree with your statement. France has the same problems. People do not necessarily vote for somebody so that this person can actually implement their program.

For years, in France it was always the centre-right, then the centre-left, then the centre-right and then the centre-left. Yet the problems remain.

So what do people do? They decide to kick the hornet's nest. They vote for the far right or the far left. It is a desperate attempt to challenge the status quo.

The Yellow vests, Trump, Brexit, they are all symptoms of deeper issues that mainstream politicians have failed to address within the last 30 years.

I would even argue that if the politicians had done their jobs correctly there would be no Trump, no Brexit and no yellow vests.

Yet instead of treating the underlying causes, we blame the people. The Trump voter is as smart as a bag of rocks, the yellow vest protester is a fascist and the Brexiters are idiots.

This thing, whatever it is is not going away. People are pissed.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#93

Post by sonnyblarney » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 5:59 AM UTC

lacampbell wrote: post #83

sonnyblarney wrote: post #23

It's more than news; it's everything else as well. Even the music. Go ahead and listen to pop music from any previous area - there is a lot of happy music, and a lot of slower tempo, beautiful music. 'Beautiful' stopped being cool in the 1990's, since then everything has to be trounced in some kind of faux-noir or whatever. Even sad songs by Simon and Garfunkel are beautiful, honest. Even the slightly cheezy soft roc…

> 'Beautiful' stopped being cool in the 1990' Was this coincidentally around the time when your adventure through puberty came to an end? There has been plenty of 'happy music' in the past two and a half decades. It's likely you just view as cheesy saccharine garbage because you didn't listen to it during a formative time of your life.

Hot 100 today:

https://www.billboard.com/charts/hot-100

Hot 100 1980:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billboard_Year-End_Hot_100_sin...

They still make good music, it doesn't go on the radio and can't compete on billboard, which is beyond rigged.

There are also technical issues such as audio levels, creeping volume etc. - Simon & Garfunkel doesn't use enough of the spectrum to be played, it's too quiet, it would be 'filled up' were a producer to touch it today, whereby the nuance is lost.

Related, compare the amount of 'energy' in the sounds - the hot 100 today is almost all verging on aggressive, it's like a caffeine jolt.

Even the slower tempo songs are 'in your face' musically, and usually lyrically as well.

There is the very subjective issue of overall quality. I don't think there is a single track on the Hot100 today that will be played in any number of years wherein people will really 'remember that jam', in any way other than to a very few select few fans.

While it's not a fair comparison because the 1980 list I linked to was a 'year end list' and not a 'current list' - many people would instantly recognize a whole host of songs on that list. If not by name, by sound.

'Radio' and distribution channels were a rough collusion between artists and industry, now it's almost entirely industry.

I really don't think there is anything relaxing about any of the Hot 100 songs: they are heavily produced, 'loud', assertive, repetitive, low-risk products.

Maybe if we take it back further than 1980 for example, before rock and roll, almost all (non colloquial) music was fairly authentic and beautiful, being orchestral in nature. The soundtrack of every film was 'pretty'.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#94

Post by watwut » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:11 AM UTC

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #35

I have another point of view here - there's power in overcoming adversity. Nearly every movie produced tells you that. But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore. We are extremely comfortable. Extremely safe. But there's something inside us that needs this adversity, it needs to triumph, to overcome challenges. This is why we run marathons, punish ourselves in the gym, climb mountains. Some of us,…

I don't think movies are good argument. Movies are not like real life, real life does not have satisfying resolution nor happy ending.

Movies teach nothing about overcoming adversity, because they are not like adversity in life at all. They are about someone predestined to win to win.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#95

Post by cryptica » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:24 AM UTC

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #35

I have another point of view here - there's power in overcoming adversity. Nearly every movie produced tells you that. But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore. We are extremely comfortable. Extremely safe. But there's something inside us that needs this adversity, it needs to triumph, to overcome challenges. This is why we run marathons, punish ourselves in the gym, climb mountains. Some of us,…

The adversity is real. Most people have horrible lives. People who are sedated in this so-called "safe comfortable state" are the ones who are being taken advantage of the most.

It's like in The Matrix, it's not until you unplug yourself that you realize that the world is worse than it has ever been. Opportunities essentually don't exist at all.

Also the argument that "if they don't realize it, then it won't hurt them" doesn't apply because it will hurt them badly in the end. Once they reach a certain age and realize that they're wasted their entire lives on video games, star wars, star treck, lord of the rings, game of thrones, etc... It will hurt badly and they won't have any way to recover.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#96

Post by luckydata » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:30 AM UTC

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #50

sonnyblarney wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree for many of us ... but I think 'life is not easy' for the bottom 50%. Most people sling coffee, serve food, work in factories, panic around in delivery vehicles all day, and with one wrongs step or bad health outcome they could be in doom. Lack of job stability, longer retirement, lack of community ... these things take their tole. Kind of a permanent existential anxiety. Just 'keeping on doing', facing the d…

This point also confirms my relativity of perception thoughts. Yes, compared to me, the bottom 50% certainly has more adversity. But why stop there? The bottom 50% in America is likely the top 20% somewhere else (I'm making all of this up, of course). Then the bottom 50% of that 20% is likely the top 1% somewhere else. And on and on it goes. I don't believe that thinking about nameless, faceless people thousands and…

Nah, this is very dangerous thinking, that somehow we're so much better than every other country. Truth to be told, aside very limited exceptions, life in the USA is quite bad for a lot of people, and very risky. Most countries have a better safety net than here, either through government or familial ties.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#97

Post by beenBoutIT » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:32 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #94

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #35

I have another point of view here - there's power in overcoming adversity. Nearly every movie produced tells you that. But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore. We are extremely comfortable. Extremely safe. But there's something inside us that needs this adversity, it needs to triumph, to overcome challenges. This is why we run marathons, punish ourselves in the gym, climb mountains. Some of us,…

I don't think movies are good argument. Movies are not like real life, real life does not have satisfying resolution nor happy ending. Movies teach nothing about overcoming adversity, because they are not like adversity in life at all. They are about someone predestined to win to win.

IRL the ending is exactly the same for everyone.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#98

Post by PopeDotNinja » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:38 AM UTC

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #35

I have another point of view here - there's power in overcoming adversity. Nearly every movie produced tells you that. But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore. We are extremely comfortable. Extremely safe. But there's something inside us that needs this adversity, it needs to triumph, to overcome challenges. This is why we run marathons, punish ourselves in the gym, climb mountains. Some of us,…

> But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore.

As a formerly homeless person living in a neighborhood filled with poverty, I'm going to humbly disagree with you on this point.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#99

Post by benj111 » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:53 AM UTC

PopeDotNinja wrote: post #98

DisruptiveDave wrote: post #35

I have another point of view here - there's power in overcoming adversity. Nearly every movie produced tells you that. But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore. We are extremely comfortable. Extremely safe. But there's something inside us that needs this adversity, it needs to triumph, to overcome challenges. This is why we run marathons, punish ourselves in the gym, climb mountains. Some of us,…

> But your average American doesn't face real adversity anymore. As a formerly homeless person living in a neighborhood filled with poverty, I'm going to humbly disagree with you on this point.

He did say 'average' American.

The article is about why we're unreasonably pessimistic. You are illustrating the point.

Re: Why are we so pessimistic?

#100

Post by lotyrin » Tue, Jun 18, 2019, 6:54 AM UTC

aeternus wrote: post #63

redsymbol wrote: post #44

Years ago, I was part of a a guided tour at the San Francisco modern art museum. And they had this wooden sculpture of Popeye (old cartoon character, you can look him up - kind of a tough/strong but lovable sailor guy). It looked old, bedraggled and beat-up looking; I think it was assembled from found driftwood or something. But when I looked at the sculpture, I saw strength. Good-natured defiance and tenacity. That…

Yes, people seem to greatly underestimate how much their own outlook affects others. This is actually an important quality I try to look for when hiring. I've seen some very technically competent leads cause team productivity and morale to plummet due to their negativity and pessimistic outlook.

I've seen that as well. I've also seen optimism doom teams in the forms of failing to anticipate obstacles, making unreasonable promises in binding documents, and underestimating project effort.

Seems like being objective and calibrating your expectations appropriately based on the risks you can or can't accept, or the trade-offs you do or don't get to make and avoiding bias or emotional attachments is pretty awfully difficult for humans (even very bright, talented ones) to do.