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The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

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Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#231

Post by henryfjordan »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #194
alexhutcheson wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the rate at which electronic safety features are advancing, I think the advantages of buying used have fallen a bit. A new base-model Corolla currently has more electronic safety features than a high-trim 3-4 year old Avalon or Lexus. That's a recent phenomenon, though, and it might be a temporary condition if the rate of improvement of those systems slows down.

How did everybody manage to convince themselves that they need these expensive add-ons? You need seatbelts, airbags, and impact absorption. That was perfected 20 years ago. Everything else is a luxury not needed for driving.

The new radar systems in the front of the car that slam the brakes if you might hit something are lifesaving for both occupant and pedestrian.

The little indicators if someone in your blind spot is also a HUGE safety increase for drivers and bikers/scooters/etc.

Those should be as standard as seatbelts an airbags in 2020.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#232

Post by barry-cotter »

jessriedel wrote: post #230
asabjorn wrote: post #202

This is a bit like saying "People buying luxury cars is just a problem with people not having high-paying jobs". It seems more fruitful to focus on what product is being sold through state-subsidized loans and if they provide the necessary value. Bloated administrations is largely to blame for the increased cost, and a middle class student getting a student loan they can't default on for a degree without earning pote…

Agree with most of this, but there are good reasons to think education costs are not driver by bloated administration. https://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2019/05/bl...

> More importantly, the data reject the bloat theory. Figure 8 shows spending shares in higher education. Contrary to the bloat theory, the administrative share of spending has not increased much in over thirty years. The research share, where you might expect to find higher lab costs, has fluctuated a little but also hasn’t risen much. The plant share which is where you might expect to find lazy rivers has even gone down a little, at least compared to the early 1980s.

...

> If bloat doesn’t work, what is the explanation for higher costs in education? The explanation turns out to be simple: we are paying teachers (and faculty) more in real terms and we have hired more of them. It’s hard to get costs to fall when input prices and quantities are both rising and teachers are doing more or less the same job as in 1950.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#233

Post by jhayward »

peteradio wrote: post #214
kittiepryde wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think your plumber has additional material and labor costs you're not seeing.

Materials sure, but what do you mean labor? He is the labor, he gets the money.

There's more to running a plumbing company that just the person who shows up at the job site. Plus, plumbing isn't a one-person job. Every plumber has helper/apprentices, etc.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#234

Post by barry-cotter »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #161
howard941 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is getting worse. It used to be hard to get 5 year loans for new cars. 8 year loans are pretty common. With the vehicle failing to reach the loan's end of life these new loans roll in the old loan's deficiency until someone defaults. A still relevant earlier discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381

Is it common for modern used cars to not last 8 years? I know lots of people driving cars that are 10-15 years old at this point.

Well if you do no maintenance whatsoever you can destroy any car in 8 years. With maintenance even a BMW will last 20 years though you may be better off getting something more rugged, like a Toyota.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#235

Post by wnissen »

alexhutcheson wrote: post #161
howard941 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is getting worse. It used to be hard to get 5 year loans for new cars. 8 year loans are pretty common. With the vehicle failing to reach the loan's end of life these new loans roll in the old loan's deficiency until someone defaults. A still relevant earlier discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14476381

Is it common for modern used cars to not last 8 years? I know lots of people driving cars that are 10-15 years old at this point.

The average car on the road is 12 years old at this point. It has increased dramatically, even during "cash for clunkers", which you would think would have dropped it. https://www.energy.gov/eere/vehicles/articles/fact-997-octob...

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#236

Post by Sophistifunk »

geggam wrote: post #209
mars4rp wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

have you heard about age discrimination in tech?

I have 50 decades of life and work in tech. You tell me ?

Look, Methusela. I doubt you were working in software in the 1500s.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#237

Post by chii »

fiftyfifty wrote: post #215
ineedasername wrote: post #64

I'm not sure the author's suggestion that potential students be diverted to trades/coding bootcampts etc., will solve too much, and instead may simply shift the problem into those trade industries as well. Somewhere in the ballpark of 2,000,000 students earn a bachelors degree each year. Let's say 25% of students should be diverted into trade schools instead. That will mean an additional 500,000 student per year ente…

We just need to reduce or eliminate government backed student loans and the problem will take care of itself. This "crisis" is almost a replay of the housing crisis we just had, government backed loans encourage lenders to lend out money to people who are not qualified for the loan. It doesn't make sense to keep loaning out tens of thousands of dollars to 18 year old kids that have no income [yet] and no real plan to…

But without the student loans, the under privileged will not be able to afford said education - I don't want to see a society where only those who can afford it go to university.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#238

Post by lkrubner »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #228
jseliger wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two books that cover this subject well: The Case Against Education : https://jakeseliger.com/2018/03/12/the-case-against-educatio... , which argues that most "education" is really signaling, not human capital acquisition, and Paying for the Party : https://jakeseliger.com/2014/04/27/paying-for-the-party-eliz... , which argues that many schools have evolved some substantive majors and some non-substantive ma…

Using a graph that shows soaring productivity to argue that soaring productivity isn't happening seems a little counterintuitive to me. But I'm not a prize-winning economist, so perhaps I'm missing something. The US economy can't be fixed by educating more plumbers. The core problem is that the US has turned itself into a peacetime rationing economy. Essential services - healthcare, education, housing, financial supp…

Productivity growth collapsed in 1973 and it has not recovered yet. There were a few good years in the 1990s, but nothing like the reliable productivity growth that the USA saw for the century before the 1970s.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#239

Post by imtringued »

mamon wrote: post #81
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That used to be called a "liberal education", which meant an education that was appropriate for free men, as opposed to slaves, who would be trained in a trade. Today, that corresponds to pursuing knowledge if you don't need the money . If you do, pursue something that pays. (Pursue as much knowledge as you can work in around the edges, but the main focus has to be on something that pays.)

Ok, so are you saying that there should be no student loans on humanities degrees? Because that's the logical conclusion of what you're saying here. Would it make sense for the government to make a list of fields where they do back up student loans (which would probably be mostly STEM fields)?

There can always be a private loan market for student loans. Government guaranteed student loans basically happen out of goodwill. The assumption is that it will be a net benefit and therefore everyone should be given the opportunity. However this didn't turn out to be true. If the government keeps funding loans that will never be paid back then it won't be able to fund the loans that can be paid back. I don't really see why limiting certain degrees is seen as pure evil. In Germany some university degrees only accept a limited amount of participants. People with higher grades will be prioritized. This restriction however doesn't apply to the STEM degrees (not an exhaustive list) because they never get enough students. Therefore even if someone is poor and suffers from low intelligence, they are not barred from a degree that leads to a prosperous career.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#240

Post by TheHegemon »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #54
thrower123 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last twenty years, new vehicle prices have doubled. My eyes just about roll out of my head when I see what the sticker price is for a new truck or minivan. I assume people must be leasing more than they used to, because I can't see any other way to get the payment down into a palatable $500/month range.

Buying new is basically a fools game now. Take note of vehicles with proven longevity and snatch them up when the depreciation makes them affordable.

Have you tried to buy a used care recently?

A 2-year-old used car is usually within $1000~$2000 of the original selling price.

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