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The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

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Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#61

Post by howard941 »

lemcoe9 wrote: post #40
lotsofpulp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand your use of the term “fair market value” in quotes, implying that it’s not the actual market value. If the seller and buyer are not under duress while selling and buying, why is the dealer not buying and selling at the market value?

Because the vast majority of the customers that walk through these buy-here pay-here places' doors already have loans on their vehicle and are looking to upgrade. "Kelly Blue Book" is not a phrase used very often by their salespeople; the customer base seems to be much more interested in the appearance of the cars than the financial utility of them.

You weren't touting KBB and that's good. Kelly Blue Book is a great trademark and marketing tool but the preferred industry reference is The Black Book https://www.blackbook.com/

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#62

Post by g00s3_caLL_x2 »

lemcoe9 wrote: post #27
g00s3_caLL_x2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trucks have doubled and it's insane. Jeeps as well. A base Ruby is now what...42k-ish? Friggin' stupid. I can almost buy two rental houses for that price. At least one that can be in move in condition with a splash of paint and carpet.

Where are you buying rental houses for $42k?

Inner city. There are always cheap rentals if you look around. I'm landlocked with no beaches. This helps costs tremendously.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#63

Post by qntty »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #36
qntty wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't an article about the morality of student loans. It's about the economy. If the economy is struggling because of people unable to pay student loans, that's a problem. Doesn't matter whether it was 'right' that it ended up this way. The problem is that people have student loans that they are unable to pay. How to solve it is another issue.

The article doesn’t make any case for the economy struggling. ‘Struggling’ in this context would mean that there’s less skilled employment opportunities available than there used to be. The article doesn’t put forward any argument to say that’s the case. With increasing enrolments, the economy could be doing great and still produce underemployment. The question is why are people completing unmarketable (or not suffic…

> The question is why are people completing unmarketable (or not sufficiently marketable) degrees?

There's no reason to single this out as 'the question'. There are many interesting questions around student loans. The article singles out the question 'What caused the student loan debt load to get to the level of “crisis” in the United States?' There is no reason that an answer to this question needs to involve the actions of individual students. You could answer the question by talking about how states are reducing the % of tuition they they contribute to state universities, or the explosion of university administration, or how student loans are easier to get now than in the past.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#64

Post by ineedasername »

I'm not sure the author's suggestion that potential students be diverted to trades/coding bootcampts etc., will solve too much, and instead may simply shift the problem into those trade industries as well. Somewhere in the ballpark of 2,000,000 students earn a bachelors degree each year. Let's say 25% of students should be diverted into trade schools instead. That will mean an additional 500,000 student per year entering those fields, which will then have the impact of making those jobs ever more scarce and probably depressing wages as workforce supply outpaces demand.

That's not to say diversion of this sort wouldn't help at all, only that it is not a cure-all. I think we're simply approaching a point in economic history where fewer workers are needed to produce more value/gpd/products/whatever. I'm not sure what the solution to that problem is though.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#65

Post by linuxftw »

pmiller2 wrote: post #29
jmpman wrote: post #9

H1B compete with the newly graduated college students. Before people say that there’s no problem with STEM graduates finding a job, I’ll counter that many of my coworkers 20 years ago didn’t have STEM degrees, and were previously English majors, business majors, etc. They were people with technical aptitude who realized they had picked a field of study that didn’t quite suit their financial aspirations. They were abl…

20 years ago was a special time. Anyone who could spell HTML could get a job. Things are different now and the bar is a bit higher. Today’s equivalent of the English and business majors are boot camp grads.

The bar is higher because there's free (or near free) specialized education overseas and not domestically. Why pay to train entry level employers when the tax payers of X country will do it for you for free? Take away the subsidized labor pool and watch that bar fall back to the floor.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#66

Post by robohoe »

mdorazio wrote: post #56
thrower123 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last twenty years, new vehicle prices have doubled. My eyes just about roll out of my head when I see what the sticker price is for a new truck or minivan. I assume people must be leasing more than they used to, because I can't see any other way to get the payment down into a palatable $500/month range.

Some quick numbers here. Inflation over the last 20 years was about 54%, so I would expect an apples-to-apples vehicle to cost that much more today than it did in 1999. If you look at the CPI-based numbers for cars from 2000 to 2019, in real dollars it's barely gone up [1]. I think what you're seeing is that the cars getting advertised, and more specifically the cars that you want are more expensive than they used to…

Except it's hard to find base model cars anywhere.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#67

Post by dsfyu404ed »

chrisco255 wrote: post #10
thrower123 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the last twenty years, new vehicle prices have doubled. My eyes just about roll out of my head when I see what the sticker price is for a new truck or minivan. I assume people must be leasing more than they used to, because I can't see any other way to get the payment down into a palatable $500/month range.

At least, when it comes to cars, they have gotten better in quality over the past 20 years. Not sure the same can be said about higher education.

If this were 10yr ago I'd agree. The 80s gave us computers. The 90s gave us good simulation software and the engineers used that to build us reliable cars. The early 2000s gave us plastic interior and exterior trim that didn't rattle and fall apart in short order.

Since then we've tacked more gears onto automatic transmissions, hybrids have become more mainstream, sedans and wagons have been replaced with small SUVs as electronic doodads have proliferated. If you don't mind creaky plastic quality is about the same back deep into the 90s for cars that were on reasonably modern platforms in the 90s.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#68

Post by linuxftw »

joelbluminator wrote: post #18
jmpman wrote: post #9

H1B compete with the newly graduated college students. Before people say that there’s no problem with STEM graduates finding a job, I’ll counter that many of my coworkers 20 years ago didn’t have STEM degrees, and were previously English majors, business majors, etc. They were people with technical aptitude who realized they had picked a field of study that didn’t quite suit their financial aspirations. They were abl…

Why can't a 28 American with an English major do a coding bootcamp and find an entry level job? I'm sure if he's reasonable intelligent and ambitious he can. There aren't that many h1b's around competing with him, most American jobs aren't h1b jobs.

Not many entry level jobs. Everyone is hiring experienced candidates because that's what H1B's are, experienced.

Would you rather hire an entry-level domestic worker for the same salary as an experienced foreign worker?

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#69

Post by AmericanChopper »

qntty wrote: post #63
AmericanChopper wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article doesn’t make any case for the economy struggling. ‘Struggling’ in this context would mean that there’s less skilled employment opportunities available than there used to be. The article doesn’t put forward any argument to say that’s the case. With increasing enrolments, the economy could be doing great and still produce underemployment. The question is why are people completing unmarketable (or not suffic…

> The question is why are people completing unmarketable (or not sufficiently marketable) degrees? There's no reason to single this out as 'the question'. There are many interesting questions around student loans. The article singles out the question 'What caused the student loan debt load to get to the level of “crisis” in the United States?' There is no reason that an answer to this question needs to involve the ac…

The problem statement in the article is ‘student loan crisis an underemployment catastrophe’. If you accept the idea that some degrees are more marketable than others, then ‘the question’ absolutely is ‘why are people completing unmarketable degrees?’.

That’s not to say there aren’t also other problems. But the problem this article is discussing is that people are completing college degrees that do not improve their employment opportunities.

Re: The student loan crisis is really an underemployment catastrophe

#70

Post by qntty »

AmericanChopper wrote: post #69
qntty wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is why are people completing unmarketable (or not sufficiently marketable) degrees? There's no reason to single this out as 'the question'. There are many interesting questions around student loans. The article singles out the question 'What caused the student loan debt load to get to the level of “crisis” in the United States?' There is no reason that an answer to this question needs to involve the ac…

The problem statement in the article is ‘student loan crisis an underemployment catastrophe’. If you accept the idea that some degrees are more marketable than others, then ‘the question’ absolutely is ‘why are people completing unmarketable degrees?’. That’s not to say there aren’t also other problems. But the problem this article is discussing is that people are completing college degrees that do not improve their…

If you're talking about a single individual, doing a degree in something employable might be a good strategy for getting a job, but it doesn't follow that getting more people into professional degree programs will significantly change the underemployment situation. Our economy only needs so many teachers, engineers, doctors, etc. Underemployment of an entire generation isn't caused by the degrees they choose.
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