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We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

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Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#181

Post by LeonM »

viraptor wrote: post #116
LeonM wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and some don't have a credit card If your customers are from Europe, it's not some , but most customers that don't have a credit card. Credit cards are uncommon here (probably hard to imagine if you are from USA). Online payments are a fragmented mess in Europe. Most countries have their own preferred online payment method (like iDEAL or bancontact), Paypal is basically the only reliable method that works everywher…

> If your customers are from Europe This is not a great approximation. In the UK you can assume almost every person has a payment card that works on the internet (debit and/or credit). In Poland on the other hand, the number of systems gets silly ( https://m.lot.com/us/en/payment-methods-on-lotcom )

I guess that I was trying to say is: don't assume that people have credit cards. In many countries credit cards are uncommon.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#182

Post by jonnycomputer »

kibwen wrote: post #140
jpalomaki wrote: post #58

For me as a customer, having PayPal as payment option increases the propability of purchase. Especially with one-time purchases from small vendors. Reasons: No risk of credit card info misuse (by vendor), I only need username and password and I get certainly at least some kind of receipt for accounting.

Conversely, for me as a customer, if a vendor offers no option but PayPal then I refuse to do business there. Ethical considerations aside, I choose not to tie myself to yet another online service just to provide a layer of abstraction over the credit cards and bank accounts I already have.

It is often easier, more convenient, and less expensive, for small retailers to set up a PayPal option than a credit card payment option.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#183

Post by brakmic »

freddie_mercury wrote: post #151
brakmic wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which country? Nobody can _stop_ you from accepting cryptocurrency.

Just like nobody can _stop_ you from murdering another person or demanding a bribe or any number of terrible things. I don't understand the point of your vehement sophistry. Everyone understands how societies work. There are laws. People get punished after the fact for transgressing them. Cryptocurrency is not somehow magically exempt from that reality.

I don't understand your point. Just wanted to talk about technology. But ok, no problem. Have fun.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#184

Post by woofie11 »

I lost trust in Paypal after one of the most credible, respectable organizations I knew was on the verge of going out-of-business. A lot of people made donations, myself included. Paypal froze and wouldn't release those donations.

I would absolutely never, ever, ever run a business which relied on Paypal.

As a shopper, it works okay, though. I got scammed once, and Paypal did nothing, but the risk isn't very high. It was probably twenty bucks or something, but if it were more, I could raise it with my credit card company.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#185

Post by Nextgrid »

jayalpha wrote: post #159
Nextgrid wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always surprised as to why people are concerned about card details misuse. You are not responsible for card-not-present fraud (without 3D Secure). You can dispute any fraudulent charge with your bank, and I’d bet good money the bank has actually better customer service in that regard compared to PayPal.

"I’m always surprised as to why people are concerned about card details misuse. You are not responsible for card-not-present fraud (without 3D Secure). " I am not surprised. You have obviously never stood in Ethiopia or wherever and have gotten a call from your bank: " This is the fraud department, unfortunately we have to block your card but we send you a new one". Trick question: How many CC do you carry at a given…

I am using a non-shit bank which will leave Apple Pay active while the physical card is replaced, or decline card-non-present transactions while leaving the card active for in-person transactions.

If the bank is bad it’s one thing but then the solution is to choose a better bank, not hack around the problem with a (shady) middleman like PayPal.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#186

Post by Nextgrid »

kalleboo wrote: post #125
Nextgrid wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m always surprised as to why people are concerned about card details misuse. You are not responsible for card-not-present fraud (without 3D Secure). You can dispute any fraudulent charge with your bank, and I’d bet good money the bank has actually better customer service in that regard compared to PayPal.

Lots of people (especially in Europe) only have debit cards and no credit cards. And those often have worse consumer protection or in the best case you're still out your money for a long time during the dispute.

How is it different from PayPal though? In either case you have to wait for the dispute to clear in your favour before being able to get your money back.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#187

Post by brakmic »

Crosseye_Jack wrote: post #133
brakmic wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Add a "time" variable to the equation and then come back some _time_ later. Then we can compare how many have used it in 2009, 2019, and 2029.

I still need to pay for food and rent/mortgage between now and then though. No point in comparing BTC acceptability in 10 years time if I can’t support myself until that point in time. Edit: For me converting BTC in funds I can use to buy food (not just for myself but also my kitty), pay my bills (rent, electricity, gas, water, internet, mobile, AWS) is a pain in the ass. Sure there are online stores they will accept…

Never said you should give up anything. Only that things take time. In 2009 you couldn't buy anything with cryptocurrencies. Today you not only can buy many things but in many countries (and regimes!) cryptocurrencies are the only way to preserve a little of what's left from previous wealth. Think Venezuela.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#188

Post by ipython »

LurkersWillLurk wrote: post #51
Grollicus wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * Uber charged $1500 to my debut card a few months ago. There's literally nobody you can call about it. And here I thought small claims court was a thing in the US as well

The problem is that most terms of service include forced arbitration clauses. Even if they don't, you generally have to sue in the jurisdiction where the company is incorporated, which for the vast majority of people, is very far away.

That's not true, you can sue a company that does business in your state, in your local small claims court.

I am not a lawyer, but I have sued out-of-state companies in my home jurisdiction.

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#189

Post by graeme »

foggyToads wrote: post #166
HenryBemis wrote: post #117

Literally NO ONE wrote the below: Every Friday go online and withdraw all-but-the-necessary £€$$ to your bank account (transfer wire or via card number). I do get some revenue via PayPal, and the very same day (or the next) I 'download' comes it to my bank account (connected to PayPal via card) and IMMEDIATELY is shipped to another account that has all the controls to make money (relatively) unmovable. I perceive Pay…

How does that protect against them erroneously withdrawing large sums from your account and hitting you with overdraft or repeated NSF fees?

Isn't the max loss there rather tiny? Especially if you have overdraft off on the paypal bank account. You can disconnect the account if something happens and there are fees accruing.

Edit: I'm replying to a really low odds scenario, where:

1. You auto sweep all money out of paypal

2. You regularly empty the checking account it sends to

You have at risk maybe $1000-$2000 in the chequing + less than $100 in fees.

For something vanishingly unlikely to happen. The risk seems rather low compared to the exposure.

I mostly use stripe and have PayPal as a backup. Never had a problem with either, and if I did have a problem with one the amounts are fairly low. (Probably more of an amount risk with stripe as they take longer to sweep out the money. But I don't think they freeze as often)

Re: We got banned from PayPal after 12 years of business

#190

Post by [deleted] »

nothrabannosir wrote: post #157
isoos wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Non-US credit or debit card owners are not in that good position wrt. disputes and getting their money back. Most of them charge for disabling the card and sending a new one. Dispute last for months, and are not automatically protecting the customer.

This is the first time I hear about this for UK. The chargeback rules are set by the network , i.e. MasterCard, Visa (sure Amex as well but they are both issuer , acquirer and network so that’s perhaps an unfair example). Is there a different rule set for MC USA vs MC rest of the world? I worked for a fraud detection company in the UK that existed precisely because chargebacks work so well, here. So this is definitel…

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