Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#441

Post by ElFitz » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:58 AM UTC

krisgenre wrote: post #376

_jal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build on someone else's platform, the best case is you get to be a sharecropper and can make money as long as you don't make so much that your platform-betters get jealous. The more typical case is this, where you get to spend your time and money doing real-world R&D and discovery of what works for them, for free. If you're going to dance with a vampire, don't be surprised when it bites you.

One way or the other aren't most of us building for someone else's platform anyway?. Mobile, desktop, browser...

One could say that while some have a platform strategy, others merely have an aggregator strategy

https://stratechery.com/2018/techs-two-philosophies/

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#442

Post by mcv » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:58 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #411

mcv wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I used to be a fan. They were explicitly not evil, gave lots of open source stuff away for free, made lots of other free services. Turns out they were just making us dependent on them, and now that they've got us, they do whatever they want. We need to make ourselves less dependent on Google. Move away from GMail, use Firefox, DuckDuckGo, OSM, federated social networks, etc. I don't have a good replacement f…

... use the contact pages on web sites you like that use AMP- to stop using AMP.

They use AMP to get ranked higher by Google. We need to stop using Google Search if we want sites to stop using AMP.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#443

Post by hanklazard » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:58 AM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #329

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The month Google originally bought Nest, I sold my thermostat to someone else and picked up an Insteon thermostat instead. My Insteon thermostat's been a reliable partner since, and doesn't send my data to anyone. I actually turned a profit on it, since I got rebate credit from my electric company originally for buying it.

I'm really happy with the Ecobee as well. The Alexa integration in the newer model doesn't work well possibly due to inferior microphones, in my experience, but I didn't want that anyway so it fits my needs perfectly. In a few years, it will also return a profit due to an at-purchase and annual credit that my electricity utility provides.

Does Ecobee have a local API option? I thought it was cloud based as well ...

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#444

Post by hanklazard » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:00 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #294

palebluedot wrote: post #33

This seems to include all of us using them in open-source "hobbyist" environments, like Home Assistant and Node-Red. I'm quite frustrated by this; I'll never buy another Nest product again, and I now regret my purchase of the Nest Thermostat. All the rest of my IoT stuff is either open-source hardware/software, or at the least local-only with known protocol interfaces. This was the one exception I made for IoT "cloud…

Woah, I was really considering a Nest (I use Hass.io for many things, lighting at sunset, reading energy meter and my home energy usage), I'm very glad I didn't purchase one yet. One more reason to go for a completely-in-my-lan solution.

I got a Venstar recently. Not as slick but has a local API and has worked well with hassio.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#445

Post by mbesto » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:07 PM UTC

krisgenre wrote: post #376

_jal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build on someone else's platform, the best case is you get to be a sharecropper and can make money as long as you don't make so much that your platform-betters get jealous. The more typical case is this, where you get to spend your time and money doing real-world R&D and discovery of what works for them, for free. If you're going to dance with a vampire, don't be surprised when it bites you.

One way or the other aren't most of us building for someone else's platform anyway?. Mobile, desktop, browser...

Which is why we have organizations that fight hard to try to keep those as open as possible.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#446

Post by peex » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:10 PM UTC

PascLeRasc wrote: post #180

specialp wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google has done this again and again with their APIs and services other than their main search and advertising business. For me as a developer Google has a bad name now and I'd never invest my time developing something in their ecosystem or worse have my business depend on it. They do not care about their user base as is shown even when they shut down paid services. Which is why even with all their promises about Goo…

I've been a Google apologist for most of my HN career, but shutting down Inbox really changed my view. Regular old GMail sucks compared to Inbox, especially the mobile app. I miss the Inbox app and its layout and recognition of important emails so much that I don't feel like I can get attached to anything else they make.

Google was over for me when they shutdown Reader. I was using that service everyday. Lots of people did too. They just don't care.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#447

Post by rich-tea » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:10 PM UTC

tpxl wrote: post #367

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #313

EU law (because the EU seems to be the only one willing to make these big laws inconveniencing tech) - any IOT enabled product that has the IOT capabilities removed by closing of a service without a simple way for those capabilities to be re-enabled (simple being further clarified in law) can be returned for a full purchase refund up to 3 months after closing of the service.

IIRC there is a law where you can return items for a full refund or exchange if the product was "not fit for purpose", which includes shenanigans like these.

The UK has the "fit for purpose" clause in the Distance Selling Act and I think you can return the product at any time. I'd highly encourage anyone who is inconvenienced by this to exercise such laws.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#448

Post by j03m1 » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:18 PM UTC

djsumdog wrote: post #419

zimablue wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[Spoiler alert, Hyperion series] That sounds totally lifted from the Hyperion series, but maybe the idea is earlier than that, does anyone have a proposed source for that idea that's earlier than 1989?

The writers were big Sci-Fi fans. The Asari were heavily influenced by the Minbari of Babylon 5. There are lots of other callouts to classic Sci-Fi in the series.

That ending tho. Unforgivable.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#449

Post by oldjokes » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:21 PM UTC

dotBen wrote: post #29

gergles wrote: post #22

> I’m a Works with Nest developer. Will I be able to access and control Nest devices moving forward? > No. The Actions on Google Smart Home platform does not provide open API access to Nest devices, so it cannot be used to access and control Nest devices. Instead, managing and controlling Google Home, Nest, and thousands of third-party smart home devices is done through the Google Home app and the Google Assistant. W…

Yup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.

Google and Amazon are ruthlessly strangling tech startups and smaller mom & pop shops that latch on to something and see a big spike in sales. They have all the data on these companies already, and people are just waiting to jump in and takeover or destroy a company completely regardless of industry or location. They just borg cube consume any success and very few people make any money in this process. This is happening every day, multiple times per day.

That's a way bigger problem than relying on an API or building some app in garden.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#450

Post by loudmax » Wed, May 08, 2019, 12:28 PM UTC

sokoloff wrote: post #439

loudmax wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Developing Microsoft desktop software you're still building on someone else's platform and hoping they don't decide to alter the terms of the deal. Microsoft may be more forward thinking than Google, but companies change.

Absolutely. That risk is much lower than developing for the Alexa, Nest, Twitter, etc platforms. At some point, you’re forced to build on someone else’s platform(s), even if that platform is “Intel” or “AWS” as no one is doing the entire end-to-end value chain.

Or build on an open an open source stack. Don't like Intel? Switch to AMD. Don't like AWS? Switch to another cloud.

Proprietary platforms lure developers to their stack by making development easy. Learning an open source is typically more difficult, but the reward is greater freedom. Believing you're forced to build on proprietary technology is a fallacy.