Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#411

Post by Angostura » Wed, May 08, 2019, 10:58 AM UTC

mcv wrote: post #342

mc32 wrote: post #66

I used to be a fan of Google. They were the good ones, the open ones. Ha! I’ve feel like they played the long sucker game. How times have changed. Even Android feels like a ruse. And Chrome. And maps. The last thing will be search. At some point it’ll be curated for my own good. To be fair, Everyone has to make a living, but be honest don’t take people for suckers of make them into suckers.

I agree. I used to be a fan. They were explicitly not evil, gave lots of open source stuff away for free, made lots of other free services. Turns out they were just making us dependent on them, and now that they've got us, they do whatever they want. We need to make ourselves less dependent on Google. Move away from GMail, use Firefox, DuckDuckGo, OSM, federated social networks, etc. I don't have a good replacement f…

... use the contact pages on web sites you like that use AMP- to stop using AMP.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#412

Post by devocracy » Wed, May 08, 2019, 10:58 AM UTC

vinay427 wrote: post #329

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The month Google originally bought Nest, I sold my thermostat to someone else and picked up an Insteon thermostat instead. My Insteon thermostat's been a reliable partner since, and doesn't send my data to anyone. I actually turned a profit on it, since I got rebate credit from my electric company originally for buying it.

I'm really happy with the Ecobee as well. The Alexa integration in the newer model doesn't work well possibly due to inferior microphones, in my experience, but I didn't want that anyway so it fits my needs perfectly. In a few years, it will also return a profit due to an at-purchase and annual credit that my electricity utility provides.

The Ecobee has been great, simple and just works. I received it for free from some in-home energy program, but I will buy another when I move.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#413

Post by NeedMoreTea » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:01 AM UTC

bpfrh wrote: post #393

tpxl wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC there is a law where you can return items for a full refund or exchange if the product was "not fit for purpose", which includes shenanigans like these.

There is a law you can return anything brought online without giving any reason for 14 days, I don't think there is a law which applies here?

At least in the UK there are the concepts of "fit for purpose" (and of merchantable quality) and "reasonable expected life". Now I doubt there's yet been much chance to evolve what a reasonable life of a smart thermostat or associated devices are, but crucially liability is with the retailer. It's on them to prove they are not liable. If they then want to chase the manufacturer, that's separate. It probably pays not to buy direct from manufacturer.

A retailer can be busy ducking all their legal obligations and telling you that you're long past the window of refund, but mention the provisions of the Sale of Goods Act and you usually get a very different response, or a manager is called over (to authorise the inevitable refund). The Sale of Goods Act is still law (Well, parts of it), and the newer EU Consumer Rights Act is in force as well. Good job too, the Sale of Goods Act is stronger in several areas, whilst the EU gave us 2 year warranty.

There is case law where things have been judged to be within reasonable expected life, and a repair, refund or compensation ordered long after the mandatory warranty ran out.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#414

Post by ajlburke » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:02 AM UTC

TeMPOraL wrote: post #361

dotBen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.

Here's a note, straight from quotes file, I took around the original Twitter fiasco, and have since reposted or mentioned on HN a few times on occasions similar to this: * Sovereign from Mass Effect on using someone else's technology: "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic e…

Between this and the infamous hacker group called "The Shadow Brokers" I think it's time someone did a study on the influence of Mass Effect on tech culture.

Not me, though - I'm in the middle of some calibrations right now.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#415

Post by masklinn » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:04 AM UTC

Angostura wrote: post #409

masklinn wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who see this as Google turning off an unused service: no, just no. This is Google cutting off a massive interop ecosystem to try to parlay the success of Nest into higher adoption of Google Home. That’s vastly different than shutting down G+, Wave, Orkut, Reader, etc. It's exactly the same as previous shutdowns, it's just that you didn't personally care about previous shutdowns and couldn't be arsed to em…

Since you claim its exactly the same as previous shutdowns listed; when Google shut down Wave, which paid for Google product were they aiming to increase adoption of?

G-Suite (Docs).

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#416

Post by CaptainZapp » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:06 AM UTC

SmellyGeekBoy wrote: post #371

CaptainZapp wrote: post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plays for Sure But generally speaking I don't disagree with your assessment. It's just that media for hire was never really their strong suit and the Zune was a bit of a joke. Where they must have suffered a world of pain is to keep old software compatible on newer Windows versions and I actually appreciate that.

> the Zune was a bit of a joke Spoken like someone who never owned one. The hardware (built by Toshiba) was excellent as was the software - if you avoided the harebrained DRM scheme and loaded your own MP3s.

Guilty as charged!

I got a defense however:

You may recall that this completely idiotic DRM implementation allowed to beam a DRMd song up to 3 times to other Zune users. That process was called squirting.

One /. commenter suggested that one should imagine Steve Balmer in the process of squirting.

Well, that pretty much killed it for me.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#417

Post by icebraining » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:10 AM UTC

Paraesthetic wrote: post #14

tetrisgm wrote: post #7

What's the point of creating an ecosystem if you won't support it? Typical Google. I understand shutting down or refocusing services that don't work. But decisions like this or to shut down Inbox make no sense to me. It feels like complete disregard of the user base.

They don't care about their user base, they care about branding and profits. If this sells more units then they will go with that.

What is their branding if not the opinion of their user base?

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#418

Post by sundvor » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:11 AM UTC

I read on The Verge that the Nest cameras will have their operating lights hardcoded to ON.

They cite pervy privacy reasons, but bad luck for anyone using it as a baby monitor, through a glass window, etc.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#419

Post by djsumdog » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:14 AM UTC

zimablue wrote: post #397

TeMPOraL wrote: post #361

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a note, straight from quotes file, I took around the original Twitter fiasco, and have since reposted or mentioned on HN a few times on occasions similar to this: * Sovereign from Mass Effect on using someone else's technology: "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic e…

[Spoiler alert, Hyperion series] That sounds totally lifted from the Hyperion series, but maybe the idea is earlier than that, does anyone have a proposed source for that idea that's earlier than 1989?

The writers were big Sci-Fi fans. The Asari were heavily influenced by the Minbari of Babylon 5. There are lots of other callouts to classic Sci-Fi in the series.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#420

Post by bryanrasmussen » Wed, May 08, 2019, 11:15 AM UTC

cm2187 wrote: post #388

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #313

EU law (because the EU seems to be the only one willing to make these big laws inconveniencing tech) - any IOT enabled product that has the IOT capabilities removed by closing of a service without a simple way for those capabilities to be re-enabled (simple being further clarified in law) can be returned for a full purchase refund up to 3 months after closing of the service.

You still have to strip your thermostats off the wall. The best is still to not buy any device that is meant to last more than 5y that relies on a service.

how about something like - if the product needs to be uninstalled to be returned the company needs to provide for uninstalling the product from the purchasers location and shipped back to the company, with full payment of shipment and uninstallation provided by the company.