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Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

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Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#391

Post by cge »

mikeash wrote: post #178
cortesoft wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't quite get what people expect... do they think that once google creates something, they are obligated to continue it indefinitely? That seems like an unreasonable expectation.

We expect web services to go away eventually. We expect physical products to keep working until they physically break. The problem is when companies sell physical products with a web service as a fundamental part of the product. Companies want to treat the web service like any other web service, while their customers reasonably expect their physical product to act like any other physical product. Edit: I want to add…

Part of the issue here is that many IoT products use web services as part of functions that don't need them at all. The cynic within me suggests that this is an intentional choice to allow for enforced obsolescence.

Beyond this, apps can be updated to remove or decrease support for older devices, and here our focus on trying to insist on auto-updated apps to fix security problems, or on apps that are designed to receive server-side updates, causes significant problems.

At some point, for example, I'm going to have to stop using the Philips Hue app, because I have an older Hue bridge. Support for the older bridge was at some point removed from the main app (and accompanied by an advertisement for the newer bridge), and moved to a legacy one, which seems to have a significantly slower response time. Now the legacy app has popups noting that web services will no longer support older hubs, and other services will be degraded... along with advertisements for the newer hubs. I expect at some point the app will simply be intentionally broken, entirely.

Fortunately, in this case, I can just use other apps, and other systems entirely, if need be, and at least the older hardware supports entirely local APIs (unless Philips decides to push a firmware update to break them?). I'm certainly not going to replace hardware that works with new hardware that provides no benefits, and throw away the old hardware; this would make no sense.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#392

Post by pbhjpbhj »

blotter_paper wrote: post #358
Nullabillity wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they choose to make it dependent on an external service then yes, I expect them to keep that service available indefinitely, for free. Consider it an incentive to avoid dependencies on external services.

Alternatively, given that you already know that they won't reliably keep those services available indefinitely, you could consider this incentive as a consumer.

Do we want to let the low morals of companies hamper technological development?

Perhaps there's a legislative solution. Although in the UK the Consumer Rights Act has no time-limit, so in theory of your thermostat stops working because the company decided to pull the plug then you can get refunded, at least.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#393

Post by bpfrh »

tpxl wrote: post #367
bryanrasmussen wrote: post #313

EU law (because the EU seems to be the only one willing to make these big laws inconveniencing tech) - any IOT enabled product that has the IOT capabilities removed by closing of a service without a simple way for those capabilities to be re-enabled (simple being further clarified in law) can be returned for a full purchase refund up to 3 months after closing of the service.

IIRC there is a law where you can return items for a full refund or exchange if the product was "not fit for purpose", which includes shenanigans like these.

There is a law you can return anything brought online without giving any reason for 14 days, I don't think there is a law which applies here?

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#394

Post by omgtehlion »

telltruth wrote: post #323
Rexxar wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. There is a lot of reasons to criticize Microsoft but they keep their services/apis alive longer than any other company.

Correct. If you had bought Windows Phone, it still works today. It's unbelievable that they have kept the whole thing running for may be 10,000 people out there.

Unfortunately not anymore. You cannot reset your device or add new apps if it is not supporting w10 mobile anymore.

Hopefully most wp8 devices can be upgraded but I would not depend on that for long...

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#395

Post by sokoloff »

krisgenre wrote: post #376
_jal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build on someone else's platform, the best case is you get to be a sharecropper and can make money as long as you don't make so much that your platform-betters get jealous. The more typical case is this, where you get to spend your time and money doing real-world R&D and discovery of what works for them, for free. If you're going to dance with a vampire, don't be surprised when it bites you.

One way or the other aren't most of us building for someone else's platform anyway?. Mobile, desktop, browser...

You can build alongside someone else's long-term demonstrated strategy (developing Microsoft desktop software) much more securely than developing a feature in someone else's closed garden.

You can also spread your footprint. As just an easy-to-discuss example, Facebook and Twitter develop for many different someone else's platforms, by supporting multiple browsers [who in turn support multiple OSs], multiple mobile platforms, etc.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#396

Post by syshum »

telltruth wrote: post #314
dehrmann wrote: post #302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My gripe is the design is nowhere near as good. It's like going from an iPhone to a feature phone. I wish there were an open-source Nest firmware, or at least an open-source backend. Google doesn't need to know when I'm home.

Nest is actually far from great thermostate, definitely not "iPhone" of thermostate. It doesn't allow lots of manual settings and it doesn't handle anything more than simple systems well. There is lot of marketing that is blinding but not much substance. You should check out thermostats like Ecobee instead.

I would say it is exactly the iphone of thermostate because the iphone is far from a great phone.

All of the complaints you just made about nest can be attributed to apple as well

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#397

Post by zimablue »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #361
dotBen wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.

Here's a note, straight from quotes file, I took around the original Twitter fiasco, and have since reposted or mentioned on HN a few times on occasions similar to this: * Sovereign from Mass Effect on using someone else's technology: "Your civilization is based on the technology of the mass relays, our technology. By using it, your society develops along the paths we desire. We impose order on the chaos of organic e…

[Spoiler alert, Hyperion series] That sounds totally lifted from the Hyperion series, but maybe the idea is earlier than that, does anyone have a proposed source for that idea that's earlier than 1989?

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#398

Post by Retric »

krisgenre wrote: post #376
_jal wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you build on someone else's platform, the best case is you get to be a sharecropper and can make money as long as you don't make so much that your platform-betters get jealous. The more typical case is this, where you get to spend your time and money doing real-world R&D and discovery of what works for them, for free. If you're going to dance with a vampire, don't be surprised when it bites you.

One way or the other aren't most of us building for someone else's platform anyway?. Mobile, desktop, browser...

Websites should not be tied to a specific browser. But, if you mean plugins’s then sure that’s a huge risk.

Mobile and desktop both have more risks than the web, but they also have vastly more dependency on their ecosystems.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#399

Post by makomk »

CaptainZapp wrote: post #284
orcthwy012 wrote: post #238

It's interesting to see the responses to this article and contrast with the responses to the article regarding Facebook's possible 5B fine. I don't know the motivation behind this decision but I can't help but see the two sides of the same coin. If we decide as a society that third-party apps misusing the platform in a way that hurts the users or otherwise looks bad to the outside world is the platform's fault, even…

which the app that harvested data for Cambridge Analytica had This is just part of the picture and almost revisionist in its briefness. Sure, they had "permission" from the user, which took that "personality-test" to harvest their data. Who sure as shit did not agree to have their data harvested were the friends of those who took the test and whoms data was harvested and resold with applomb and abandon. Leaving this…

The thing is, that's clearly not what most people actually object to about Cambridge Analytica. I mean, the same is even more true of Obama's 2012 campaign, which went so far as to harvest their supporters' friends' posting activity to assess how best to get those friends to vote Obama, and yet nearly all of the people who loudly decried Cambridge Analytica used this same bogus consent argument to justify why the Obama campaign's actions were OK.

Re: Google Is Turning Off the Works-with-Nest API

#400

Post by jfoster »

dotBen wrote: post #29
gergles wrote: post #22

> I’m a Works with Nest developer. Will I be able to access and control Nest devices moving forward? > No. The Actions on Google Smart Home platform does not provide open API access to Nest devices, so it cannot be used to access and control Nest devices. Instead, managing and controlling Google Home, Nest, and thousands of third-party smart home devices is done through the Google Home app and the Google Assistant. W…

Yup, they just did a Twitter. I lived through the Twitter ecosystem collapse and now I'm a VC I worry about investing in startups that are built on any large ecosystem where there isn't an alignment of clear economic interest. Google of all people doing this just made it tougher for everyone else to maintain confidence in large vendor platforms.

It's worse than Twitter. Twitter made a strategic decision (correct or not) that applied across their entire business. Google are making this decision and calculating or hoping that it's in isolation from the rest of their business. That really doesn't seem to be the case.

For the rest of their business' life, Google APIs will be met with skepticism about their long-term prospects. That sucks, because it doesn't seem good for anyone. Not good for Google. Not good for their customers. Not good for 3rd party developers.

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