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Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

japantimes.co.jp

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Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#71

Post by Causality1 »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #54

Edit: I just realized that the nearly 100% conviction rate is only for those who go to trial. A third of the people who are detained are released without trial. So ignore this post: my main assumption (that arrest is similar to conviction) was incorrect. --- Maybe one way to think of the Japanese justice system is that the trial happens before the defendant is arrested. After all, the conviction rate is nearly 100%,…

Like much of Japanese society, appearances and propriety are very important. Sometimes that means releasing criminals who might not be found guilty. Sometimes it means homicides get declared suicides.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#72

Post by thereare5lights »

gambiting wrote: post #9
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

>>I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Just because something is normalised doesn't mean it's ok, I think we can both agree on that?

Then why do posts that talk about our (the US's) problems such as Rikers always get flagged on HN whereas posts about other countries get through?

Seems like empty rhetoric to me.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#73

Post by stale2002 »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #45

I'm not going to tell the Japanese how to run their society, primarily because I'm not Japanese, they're a sovereign nation, and there is no evidence that the system I'm currently subjected to is any better or worse. If the Japanese people want to change this, and want external support to change this, that is an entirely different discussion from what was in this article.

I mean, places like Saudi Arabia and Iran give people the death penalty for being gay.

Being a "sovereign" nation is not a justification for anything. I am happy to denounce bad thing that other countries do, because of my "sovereign" right to do so.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#74

Post by fmajid »

Thaxll wrote: post #40

Japan is a really weird country, on one hand it's the safest country, on the other it has old laws / weird mentality about some modern concepts for society, ex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_child_abduction_...

Google "Minamata" to shake off those rosy-tinted glasses you are wearing.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#75

Post by bernardom »

mises wrote: post #60
anonu wrote: post #36

Ghosn's handling by the Japanese is utterly despicable. No habeas corpus ... no due process. Ghosn is credited with a stunning corporate turnaround and creating billions of dollars of value for a Japanese company and the Japanese people. I am certain foreign corporations who do business in Japan are thinking long and hard about the implications and potential risks of operating there. To be clear - I am not saying Gho…

At some point, foreign nations are different and we just have to deal with it. We got habeas corpus and other processes from the Magna Carta back in the eleventh century B.C., and the resultant English Common Law shaped the justice systems of America and other nations. It is not fair of us to expect all justice systems to align with ours. For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have simply…

A.D. :-)

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#76

Post by mises »

stcredzero wrote: post #64
mises wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, foreign nations are different and we just have to deal with it. We got habeas corpus and other processes from the Magna Carta back in the eleventh century B.C., and the resultant English Common Law shaped the justice systems of America and other nations. It is not fair of us to expect all justice systems to align with ours. For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have simply…

At some point, foreign nations are different and we just have to deal with it. Inherent human rights are universal. The closer the world comes to this ideal, the better life is for more people. For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have simply never taken to democracy, and a good number of people are of the opinion it is simply an issue with their culture. According to the level of democ…

> Inherent human rights are universal.

No, they are not. This reflects a bias to believing that your own ideas and values are best. The only value that is universal is power.

> the... countries with the highest scores are Israel...

I'm not sure what this is meant to argue. It is merely a listing of the countries in a certain area with the highest levels of democracy.

> they are over a dozen generations behind the west

Further reflection of your condescending attitude. Who are you to say they are "behind"? I believe in liberty, and would suppose you do as well, but what right have we to tell others what is right? Democracy may or may not take hold, but it is not intrinsically good.

Democracy is not a universal value, and cannot be forced on others. That is moral imperialism.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#77

Post by mises »

lostlogin wrote: post #61
mises wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At some point, foreign nations are different and we just have to deal with it. We got habeas corpus and other processes from the Magna Carta back in the eleventh century B.C., and the resultant English Common Law shaped the justice systems of America and other nations. It is not fair of us to expect all justice systems to align with ours. For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have simply…

> For an extreme example of this issue, look at the Middle East. They have simply never taken to democracy. This isn’t helped by foreign interference in every election they have. Even the borders, arbitrary lines drawn up by colonial powers, contribute to the problem as the forced groupings don’t suit anyone except for some colonial empire a long time ago. If the meddling stopped for a decent duration democracy might…

Very true, though without such interference, the idea may never have arisen there.

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#78

Post by b_tterc_p »

_cs2017_ wrote: post #70
b_tterc_p wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s mostly because their system is underfunded so they don’t bother going to court unless a win is guaranteed.

Interesting. Wouldn't that imply that a lot of crimes are not investigated, and/or suspected criminals are let go?

Yep

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#79

Post by azernik »

stcredzero wrote: post #65
mafribe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's also what I though. The new German constitution was heavily based on the Weimar constitution, but the parts that made Weimar unstable were replaced so those failure modes no longer apply, e.g. Weimar's destruktives Misstrauensvotum was replaced by konstruktives Misstrauensvotum , cf [1, 2]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_of_no_confidence#German... [2] https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Misstrauensvot…

According to Leonard Peikoff, the laws of the Weimar Republic which touched on Human Rights all had an "out" for the government to suspend rights in case of a national emergency or "for the common good." Is this accurate and is this still the case today?

Emergency powers were indeed reduced.

But more importantly, the post-war constitution was not allowed to be amended in ways that would contradict its "liberal democratic basic order" (banning a rerun of the Enabling Act).

Re: Examining Carlos Ghosn and Japan's System of 'Hostage Justice'

#80

Post by SkyBelow »

SkyBelow wrote: post #49
sandworm101 wrote: post #5

I don't see the problem. Extended detention and repeated interrogation is normal around the world. Visit Rikers island and look at how long people are held there prior to trial (years). The focus on confessions isn't a Japanese thing. Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. Repeated questioning isn't torture. In the USA it is true that police have to stop asking quest…

> Look at how many americans/canadians/brits/auzzis agree plea deals, a form of confession. There are also done under threat. "Plea guilty to X and take 6 months in prison, or we will charge you with Y which carries 10 years in prison. If you choose the second option we will give you an overworked public defender who loses 90% of the time." In effect, it is punishing people for insisting on their right to a jury tria…

*There -> They're

My self disappointment is immeasurable.

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