Amazon Quits China Market • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#211

Post by Leary » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:16 AM UTC

megaremote wrote: post #208

yding wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is just wrong. By many measures, China is one of the most innovative countries on earth. Take scientific citations for example: https://www.natureindex.com/news-blog/chinas-citations-catch...

Do you have any other benchmark apart from citations?

Bloomberg Innovation index: https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/3hi4O/2/?abcnewsembedheight=55... China is 16, ahead of the UK and Canada

Global Innovation Index: https://www.globalinnovationindex.org/gii-2018-report China is 17

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#212

Post by icelancer » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:25 AM UTC

49531 wrote: post #116

philwelch wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire Chinese economy has to do with government interference. The scales are absolutely tipped in favor of Chinese companies.

I wouldn't think that is a bad thing per se. Countries who can consume and produce within themselves are going to succeed more than those who primarily import / export. If I were the Chines government I'd want to keep Amazon out as well.

> Countries who can consume and produce within themselves are going to succeed more than those who primarily import / export.

What? This runs counter to basically all of human history and the rise of open/free trade. People should produce what they are best at and trade accordingly, which optimizes workflow for all market participants. Central planning of economies works exceptionally inefficiently and leads to imbalanced products available. Just ask the USSR and the availability of food.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#213

Post by ssnistfajen » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:29 AM UTC

eledumb wrote: post #93

Amazon is being smart. They know the Chinese will steal every bit of IP/Technology they can, and then once they've extracted all the juice they'll create market conditions that make it impossible for the foreign company to remain successful. China has been running this program on everyone since they started with the Communist/Open market concept. It's just amazing that companies still haven't caught on. The lure of b…

Some people always have a myriad of excuses to cover up what appears to be simply a failure to stay competitive in a highly competitive market.

Learn to read the article next time.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#214

Post by hopler » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:29 AM UTC

product50 wrote: post #99

PakG1 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's logical for them to have local stock. That would require a HUGE capital investment to build up infrastructure and distribution points to go head to head with the locals. I bet Amazon's CFO looks at that and then tells Bezos, "Hey, these numbers are completely irrational, let's spend the money elsewhere where we'll have a better return on investment, please."

Yeah - and Jeff seems to be the type of guy who is like, you are right CFO. We are here for the short term - let us do what you are saying?! China is the biggest eComm market in the world! If there was an opportunity for Amazon to penetrate (regulations being the biggest challenge), Amazon would have totally gone for it. This is a company why, 5 yrs back, committed $5B to India when eComm there was/still is totally b…

5 yrs ago was 7 yrs after Flipkart cloned Amazon in India by former Amazon employees.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#215

Post by manigandham » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:41 AM UTC

tanilama wrote: post #194

manigandham wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's Chinese competitors are helped by the government. China does not have an aviation manufacturer to compete directly (yet) but it ensures that neither Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market. The parent poster claimed McDonalds was a successful example, however it only successful because it is now led by Chinese-state-owned agency so the real-estate (which is 99% of t…

1. Apple's competitor is cheaper...literally 40%-50% of its price, if you are talking about Xiaomi/Vivo/Oppo. Those are decent phones, not as premium but offer great experience. 2. > Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market Isn't that the smart thing to do? Government ALWAYS chooses multiple vendors, DARPA wants to use AWS as its sole cloud computing provider and it gets SUE…

The conversation has drifted. It's not about whether you see a problem. It's just how things are done in China where the government has total control over the market unlike many other countries and the US.

Amazon couldn't compete because it was not allowed to compete.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#216

Post by contingencies » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:45 AM UTC

mooreds wrote: post #137

contingencies wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never used z.cn but saw a few neighbours ordering from them in Shenzhen. Probably recent tech books in English I guess. I did try AWS in China and it was absolutely shocking . Clearly they never prioritized China and the inevitable happened. I run a business in China, it's not easy but it's interesting.

AWS in China is not run by AWS: "To provide the best experience for customers in China and to comply with China’s legal and regulatory requirements, AWS has collaborated with China local partners with proper telecom licenses for delivering cloud services. The service operator and provider for AWS China (Beijing) Region based out of Beijing and adjacent areas is Beijing Sinnet Technology Co., Ltd. (Sinnet), and the se…

It was when I used it in 2016. And they'd been there for years. And it was shit. See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11209227

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#217

Post by mtw » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:46 AM UTC

manigandham wrote: post #136

mtw wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. I don't know about this. Starbucks, McDonalds, KFC, Boeing, Apple and many others are ahead of their Chinese peers in China. It sounds like you're just using a blanket statement from reading various online articles without even how it's out there.

I've been there, worked with people there, have friends there building businesses for decades. Have you been out there? Companies are allowed to operate and grow, but they are tightly controlled. Apple has strong competition and has already trimmed prices and revenue targets. China just purchased 300 planes from Airbus instead of Boeing. McDonalds sold off 80% of its China operations to a Chinese stated-owned company…

The original statement was "China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector." The fact is that no chinese company has a better position than Boeing. There are no chinese company with better position than Louis Vuitton, Chanel etc. There are no chinese companies with more profits than Apple. Those are just a few examples but they prove that that it is possible for a non-Chinese company to get top position in a sector. You should restrict your statement to "Non chinese company can get a top position in China but there will be tight control"

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#218

Post by manigandham » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:49 AM UTC

munk-a wrote: post #202

manigandham wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are opposite things. True, US corporations are independent and can gain influence over parts of the government. In China, the government controls the corporations. Chinese nationals are the largest foreign group of investors in US commercial and residential real estate. They have plenty of access. The success and scale of the Belt and Road Initiative directly shows just how vast the control extends.

Is this separate from US investment abroad - historically, when the US was at it's peak, there were governments in central and south america that were overthrown to make sure fruit corporations received favorable government treatment. In the modern world we're seeing the influence of the US waning, but lots of countries have "voluntarily signed on" to buying the boondoggle that is the F-35 even after all of the negat…

We're not disagreeing on whether America is a free market. No country is. Your post on taxes was perhaps a bad example but regardless the topic here is about Amazon leaving China. The reason as I see it is not because they were a poor competitor but rather because they were not allowed to compete.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#219

Post by ClassyJacket » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:51 AM UTC

product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

>Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world.

Amazon is practically non-existent in Australia.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#220

Post by seemuch » Tue, Apr 23, 2019, 1:52 AM UTC

The discussion in this thread shows how blind people are about China's development. They are pointing fingers to the Chinese government partly because they simply cannot imagine how much better the China competitors are. The US do have some advantages in the IT industry, but that advantage is getting slimmer and slimmer. In fact, in so many ways, people in China are enjoying much better services from the internet companies than people in the US. But people in the US simply cannot see it, and cannot believe it. For ordinary people, I don't blame them. But most of people on HN are from this industry, and they are the same! This just makes me speechless.