Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Amazon Quits China Market

pandaily.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 316 posts

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#31

Post by ConfusedDog »

contingencies wrote: post #26
ConfusedDog wrote: post #12

As a person have actually used TaoBao, JD, and Amazon.cn, I can tell Amazon.cn was far behind them on both execution and product variety. I only have a vague impression of China's rules imposed on business, if they did, for sure Amazon was screwed so badly it didn't move a single inch over the past few years. Literally done nothing at all to compete. I'm not surprised they gave up.

Never used z.cn but saw a few neighbours ordering from them in Shenzhen. Probably recent tech books in English I guess. I did try AWS in China and it was absolutely shocking . Clearly they never prioritized China and the inevitable happened. I run a business in China, it's not easy but it's interesting.

I heard AWS works in China, just not sure how well. Considering the GFW, I wouldn't have chosen it for projects serving Chinese users. Likely same consumer mentality is also playing a part against Amazon.cn and other foreign tech giants.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#32

Post by product50 »

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#33

Post by duxup »

cletus wrote: post #3

This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…

Yeah paying to play on a playing field that will change the moment someone in power is supporting a competitor seems pretty absurd at face value.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#34

Post by navigatesol »

sytelus wrote: post #30
cletus wrote: post #3

This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…

Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…

>This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba

And of course these local players are in no way supported or promoted by the government, right?

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#35

Post by PakG1 »

product50 wrote: post #32

Amazon has literally won everywhere else in the world. But in China they were slow at execution? Does this read right to you? Or maybe there is a regulatory angle which no one is talking about because...China.

Living and working in China and having experienced Amazon's competitors, yes, that does read completely right to me. Amazon is crushing it at everything back home. I don't hesitate to buy many things from Amazon when at home. But in China, the jd.com and taobao.com experience is way better than what I experience from Amazon when I'm at home.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#36

Post by cletus »

fantasticsid wrote: post #14
cletus wrote: post #3

This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…

They failed because they were not able to adapt to the Chinese market/have any competitive advantage against alibaba or JD which is the point the article is trying to make. None of what you mentioned is alluded in the article.

My contention is that wouldn't matter. If they did adapt to the Chinese market and seriously started to eat market share from the likes of Alibaba I GUARANTEE you the rules would change to Amazon's disadvantage.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#37

Post by martinlaz »

navigatesol wrote: post #34
sytelus wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…

> This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba And of course these local players are in no way supported or promoted by the government, right?

Could be... But then again, I find it hard to believe that if Alibaba ever starts overtaking Amazon in the US, the government will just stand and watch.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#38

Post by michaelscott »

BoorishBears wrote: post #15
jimrhods23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you use in reference to China? It originates from the Cantonese language (probably because of the amount of Cantonese speakers in San Francisco back in the day) and in China.

Most people will know what it means if I say el . But it's like if I only say el when my Mexican friend is around. Just weird, and not necessary. Or since that example apparently goes over some of your heads, it’s like how some of you only use “bruh” and “yo” and “what’s good” around me, your black coworker and no one else.

All your examples are false equivalences. The word "kowtow" is a perfect description of a relatively complicated ritual that didn't already have an English word for it (you could maybe substitute "placate" or "show deference" but these can have other meanings in different contexts). Words from other languages like "karaoke", "restaurant" and "prima donna" have always been incorporated into English when no specific substitute works well enough (of course this isn't specific to English, but it is a very English habit).

Your Mexican example would be using (I assume?) the Spanish of whatever word would work just as well in English, and I've personally used and seen people use words like "bruh" and "yo" with lots of different people. In fact, where I'm from "bruh" is a very typical "white" thing to say.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#39

Post by z2 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #15
jimrhods23 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why wouldn't you use in reference to China? It originates from the Cantonese language (probably because of the amount of Cantonese speakers in San Francisco back in the day) and in China.

Most people will know what it means if I say el . But it's like if I only say el when my Mexican friend is around. Just weird, and not necessary. Or since that example apparently goes over some of your heads, it’s like how some of you only use “bruh” and “yo” and “what’s good” around me, your black coworker and no one else.

Not sure why others seem to disagree, but kow-tow indeed conjures up fu manchu-esque images, a sort of comical or repugnant representation of groveling associated exclusively with Asian culture. Exactly as you say, it's not necessarily racist in intention of using the term as subservience, but racial nonetheless. Separately, the actual kau-tau seems to have meant something specific as a ritual of respect. Used here, its generalization to mean forced groveling or appeasement is strange, as it implies the person or entity doing it is a loser.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#40

Post by seanmcdirmid »

sytelus wrote: post #30
cletus wrote: post #3

This is why I don't get why companies--tech giants in particular--kowtow to China in the hopes of getting access to the Chinese market. It will never happen. At least, it won't be open access. You'll have to play by Chinese rules (ie integration with the Great Firewall, storing data in China, probably integration with social credit and so on). Worse, there might be (basically forced) "IP transfer". Even after all tha…

Perhaps you didn’t read the article. This has nothing to with government interference. Local players in China are very strong with likes of Alibaba doing massive shopping festivals that easily rivals Thanksgiving. Two day delivery is China is considered slow and nothing to be proud about. On the top of this, it looks there were control issues where leaders at Amazon.cn weren’t empowered to make decisions. I actually…

I personally would defer judgement on why Amazon is leaving; Alibaba tends to be the most competitive of the Chinese internet companies, and has a corporate culture very similar to Amazon (frugal, but with 996).

But Alibaba isn’t really Amazon’s main competitor, they are much more B2B than B2C, it’s only when you throw in TMall or Taobao that comparisons become more apt. When I was living in Beijing, my wife and I never used Alibaba, it was always JD.com or some other consumer oriented site, and even Amazon sometimes (though mostly because the Microsoft China trade Union kept giving us gift cards as a kickback).

Post reply on HN