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Amazon Quits China Market

pandaily.com

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191–200 of 316 posts

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#191

Post by awl130 »

manigandham wrote: post #124

This has nothing to do with communications or product development. China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. That's how the government works. And yes the article is bullshit because this same government won't allow any negative press about their actions either. These Pandaily journalists will have a very hard time if they actually wrote about the real environment there.

"That's how the government works". Calm down. Huawei has been shut out of America (and many other allies) because of allegations of ties to the Chinese government. Amazon is on the cusp of winning a $10B contract for the Pentagon. So, same thing. America and China are now explicitly strategic competitors, both governments have been saying that for the past 2 years. It's about competition, not about totalitarian repression.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#192

Post by dfischer »

awl130 wrote: post #191
manigandham wrote: post #124

This has nothing to do with communications or product development. China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. That's how the government works. And yes the article is bullshit because this same government won't allow any negative press about their actions either. These Pandaily journalists will have a very hard time if they actually wrote about the real environment there.

"That's how the government works". Calm down. Huawei has been shut out of America (and many other allies) because of allegations of ties to the Chinese government. Amazon is on the cusp of winning a $10B contract for the Pentagon. So, same thing. America and China are now explicitly strategic competitors, both governments have been saying that for the past 2 years. It's about competition, not about totalitarian repre…

No, not the same thing when there's evidence of lawbreaking and eavesdropping.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#193

Post by chrischen »

parrellel wrote: post #172
chrischen wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without providing sources or proof you’re just regurgitating highly anti-Chinese propaganda.

Since China is also known for all-levels number fudging and revisionism, and state policy and culture has a tendency toward brigading that'd make tumblr blush, the "anti-china propaganda" tends to be a tad more credible, no?

Is that how the process works now? Go with whoever tends to be be a "tad more credible." Everyone has agendas, and you'll go nowhere comparing the relative strength of everyone's agendas.

Simply stating something likely done by Alibaba, but not necessarily true not only adds nothing to the conversation, but detracts from the journey to the truth. If we accept his statement as is, then you may as well accept anything anti-China simply based on the fact that it is anti-China. But doing so of course would be openly declaring yourself as an agenda-based biased actor.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#194

Post by tanilama »

manigandham wrote: post #180
ETHisso2017 wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Apple has strong competition and has already trimmed prices and revenue targets. How is that the government's fault? >China just purchased 300 planes from Airbus instead of Boeing. Airbus is European >McDonalds sold off 80% of its China operations to a Chinese stated-owned company years ago because it had trouble adapting its menu. Again why is McDs inability to serve the Chinese palate the fault of the government?…

Apple's Chinese competitors are helped by the government. China does not have an aviation manufacturer to compete directly (yet) but it ensures that neither Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market. The parent poster claimed McDonalds was a successful example, however it only successful because it is now led by Chinese-state-owned agency so the real-estate (which is 99% of t…

1. Apple's competitor is cheaper...literally 40%-50% of its price, if you are talking about Xiaomi/Vivo/Oppo. Those are decent phones, not as premium but offer great experience.

2. > Boeing or Airbus get a significant lead over each other in their controlling market

Isn't that the smart thing to do? Government ALWAYS chooses multiple vendors, DARPA wants to use AWS as its sole cloud computing provider and it gets SUED.

What you seem to want to point out is, China has a very unique business environment and domestic market, where Western companies, if not going through intensive localization and adaptation, can't directly deploy its otherwise global operations in China easily. Yes, China needs to open more of its market, and under the current trade war, it needs to do that fast. However, that still won't mean that American companies should assumed be the winner, unless they have a competing edge, the locals just can't offer.

I really don't see this is a much problem here. China/Japan/Korea, those Asian countries have dynamic domestic economy, and those companies are competitive in their homeland.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#195

Post by djvu9 »

manigandham wrote: post #124

This has nothing to do with communications or product development. China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. That's how the government works. And yes the article is bullshit because this same government won't allow any negative press about their actions either. These Pandaily journalists will have a very hard time if they actually wrote about the real environment there.

Though the end result is more or less something similar you are over simplifying the situation. IMO usually there are two major reasons that makes foreign companies hard to compete with locals: * Excessive regulations and sometimes special rules for foreign companies. But e-commerce is usually not the worst sector for this. * "Expertise" on how to deal with local laws. It is no secret local laws are usually selectively applied. Local companies have a lot more flexibility than foreign companies and they can do a lot of things that could create prohibitive legal liabilities for foreign companies if they even want to follow. For example, low wages and unhealthy work environments, unlawful marketing tactics, bribery and corruption etc.

I would argue the latter is the usual competitive advantages local companies have.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#196

Post by manigandham »

munk-a wrote: post #176
manigandham wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any corporation here can take advantage of tax rules. You can be a Chinese national starting a US company as a subsidiary of a Chinese company and do exactly the same thing.

In the best case that's a misunderstanding of the political situation in the US. As a reference, recall HQ2 where Amazon was negotiating to skirt property taxes for the next infinity years with the local government. All corporations technically have access to these, but regulatory capture is strong in the US and market incumbents tend to have a lot of weight to throw around to make sure they get favorable tax loophol…

Those are opposite things. True, US corporations are independent and can gain influence over parts of the government. In China, the government controls the corporations.

Chinese nationals are the largest foreign group of investors in US commercial and residential real estate. They have plenty of access. The success and scale of the Belt and Road Initiative directly shows just how vast the control extends.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#197

Post by empath75 »

munk-a wrote: post #139
manigandham wrote: post #124

This has nothing to do with communications or product development. China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. That's how the government works. And yes the article is bullshit because this same government won't allow any negative press about their actions either. These Pandaily journalists will have a very hard time if they actually wrote about the real environment there.

Amazon has severe product development issues for their goods marketplace, up here in Canada the wind is saying that Amazon's quality is always somewhat questionable with white-labeled resellers that are offering goods available through AliExpress or Wish but at a steep markup. Amazon has shifted from a company that sells highish quality goods of a wide variety to selling goods of random quality of that wide variety w…

Amazon is the premier marketplace for counterfeits and relabelled crap from alibaba. I don’t know why anyone buys anything from there. I’m at the point where I’d rather buy most things from Walmart.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#198

Post by manigandham »

awl130 wrote: post #191
manigandham wrote: post #124

This has nothing to do with communications or product development. China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. That's how the government works. And yes the article is bullshit because this same government won't allow any negative press about their actions either. These Pandaily journalists will have a very hard time if they actually wrote about the real environment there.

"That's how the government works". Calm down. Huawei has been shut out of America (and many other allies) because of allegations of ties to the Chinese government. Amazon is on the cusp of winning a $10B contract for the Pentagon. So, same thing. America and China are now explicitly strategic competitors, both governments have been saying that for the past 2 years. It's about competition, not about totalitarian repre…

I'm perfectly calm. The US government is nowhere near as protectionist and controlling as China's. This is indisputable. The current administration is starting to change policies to at least counter some of the control China extends beyond its borders.

Totalitarian control has an effect on competition. Those cannot be independent.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#199

Post by Permit »

yding wrote: post #179
mahranch wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Chinese culture of copy-catting freely doesn't help. The problem with that, is that it's a vicious circle. Innovation is the foundation for future innovations. It builds on itself. It lays the groundwork and foundation for what comes next. By leapfrogging and cheating its way to the top (or near the top) they are sacrificing that crucial infrastructure for future discoveries and innovations. China has to copy & ste…

This is just wrong. By many measures, China is one of the most innovative countries on earth. Take scientific citations for example: https://www.natureindex.com/news-blog/chinas-citations-catch...

Scientific citations seem like a very poor metric for a country that is plagued by scientific fraud.

Re: Amazon Quits China Market

#200

Post by [deleted] »

manigandham wrote: post #124

This has nothing to do with communications or product development. China will not let a non-Chinese company ever gain top position in any sector. That's how the government works. And yes the article is bullshit because this same government won't allow any negative press about their actions either. These Pandaily journalists will have a very hard time if they actually wrote about the real environment there.

[deleted]
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