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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#421

Post by tomlagier »

microtonal wrote: post #35
sundvor wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My laptop of choice (X1 Carbon) consistently gets a pretty good rep for its keyboard. I'm still using my ~6.5 year old first generation (top spec) and the keyboard remains flawless. But then again they actually test for foreign particle ingression: https://solutions.lenovo.com/resource-center/pc-solutions/pa...

Practically any laptop has a good keyboard compared to the first two generations of butterfly keyboards. I have suffered through a MacBook Pro with the second generation butterfly mechanism. Although I liked the feel of the pristine keyboard, pretty soon specks of dusts made keys get stuck/repeat regularly. I also had a can of compressed air to blow out the dust regularly. Between the broken keyboard and only 2 USB-C…

About the sound thing - I recently discovered that this is because the Macbook has several microphones which allows for ambient noise reduction. Something I wish was easier to set up for personal use - I use a webcam to stream tabletop roleplaying games, and ambient noise is a big problem.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#423

Post by noelsusman »

H1Supreme wrote: post #137
darrmit wrote: post #117

It’s not just the keyboard, either. I’ve been buying Macs since they switched to Intel in 2006 and the most recent MacBook Pros are the most problematic I’ve ever had. - Bluetooth seems to be fundamentally flawed at a hardware level. AirPods, Plantronics, doesn’t matter. It just randomly connects and disconnects as it pleases. - USB-C dongles are a minefield of poor functionality However, I’ve run Linux off and on si…

> tune and configure it to work You really don't have to do that. For example: I put Ubuntu Mate on a 2009 Macbook that could not run MacOs anymore (too slow). I had to install a wifi driver, and that was it. Everything else worked out of the box. My current Dell Inspiron 7000 laptop is running the same OS, and needed 0 drivers installed. I put Antergos on an Intel Nuc (that I later switched to Ubuntu Server). Again,…

I tried putting Linux on my 2015 Macbook Pro and found that sleep was totally broken with no workaround, which is a dealbreaker on a laptop. It was a known bug for a year before a patch hit the kernel to fix it, and that kernel didn't come with a standard Ubuntu install until a year after that.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#424

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

da_chicken wrote: post #387
alexhutcheson wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it normal for companies to expect employees to pay for accidentally damaged equipment? At everywhere that I've worked, some accidental damage was treated as a cost of doing business, and IT would replace it.

IMX, it varies. At the hospital I worked, damaged equipment was replaced without question, but only doctors were issued laptops or iPaqs (this was pre-smartphone). If the same individual kept damaging equipment it went to the individual's lead or supervisor for disciplinary reasons, but I only ever saw that once when a guy threw three iPaqs against a wall (never found out why). At the school district I work, the poli…

> If the damage is intentional, then the staff member always pays. This comes up more often than you might expect.

?

I’m guess the children example you mentioned might be one example of this?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#425

Post by sethammons »

coldtea wrote: post #191
sethammons wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not following, why emphasise the words you did? Reminds me of Austin Powers not being able to control the volume of his voice.

Because (a) the emphasised parts describe the very method the parent said isn't how you're supposed to charge the Apple Pencil (b) they show what Apple not only recommends this method, but recommends it firat and without any qualifications, whereas what the parent said it the "canonical" way is mentioned as an aside qualified by "you can also". I could just paste the whole excerpt, but I wanted to "rub the relevant p…

Apparently I've been flagged and I'm having trouble finding the parent comment. What I recall was "YOUR" also emphasised, and I did not follow why. Underscores around the word also work for emphasise.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#426

Post by School-Cotton »

gdhbcc wrote: post #310
School-Cotton wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My non-negotiable requirements for a laptop are as follows. If there were a non-Apple model that fit these criteria, I would consider switching. Do you know of any? (1) Unibody metal construction (2) Extremely high-quality and high-resolution screen (3) All-SSD storage (4) High-quality trackpad with multi-touch gesture support (all gestures must work perfectly 100% of the time, and the acceleration/deceleration shoul…

That kind of looks like throwing a darf, and then painting the bullseye after. In any case, the Huawei Matebook pro x would seem to fit all but the default unix OS requirement. I dont think any PC comes with any unix os by default, other than apple, but given the ease of setup I'm not inclined to view that requirement as anything other than a way to select what you wanted a first

I guess your definition of "ease of setup" is not the same as mine.

If I could be guaranteed that everything work perfectly out of the box with no weird driver issues when I burn and install an Ubuntu .ISO, I agree that the OS being default is not a necessity.

But I've only heard of this being the case on a small whitelist of "known to work well with Linux" devices, like Thinkpads, etc., which don't fulfill the other conditions.

Again, I'm not just arguing ideology, here: I'd be genuinely happy for you to show me a non-Apple laptop that meets my criteria, if one exists.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#427

Post by pknopf »

xfer wrote: post #286
rovr138 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For my workstation, no matter the OS, I’m going to revert what I did. If that doesn’t fix it, I’m going to format and restore with a backup. I have better things to do.

Or you can just use a proper linux distro that allows systemwide rollbacks like nixos.

Or, use Darch with Ubuntu (or whatever you want).

https://godarch.com

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#428

Post by dmitryminkovsky »

fumar wrote: post #277

I just came back to a MacBook Pro 2018 after several years of experimenting with Windows machines. Based on this thread I am outlier – I enjoy using the trackpad, touch strip, and the keyboard seems fine. In the past five years I have used the following; Thinkpad x230, Thinkpad X1 carbon, Thinkpad x370 yoga, Thinkpad X1 Yoga, Surface Pro 3,4,5, Surface Laptop, Surface Book 1,2, and a hackintosh Thinkpad X230. I was a…

Naa you’re not alone. I love the new MBP keyboard. My experience to suggests what we have here is a vocal minority. I type faster with the new style keyboard, I enjoy the springiness of the keys and their much larger size than previous iterations. I also like how their backlighting works compared to the old style. If people are having trouble with them, Apple should resolve those issues, but in my opinion the keyboards and new MBPs are excellent machines.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#429

Post by darkpuma »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #396
dathinab wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly any Laptop you pay 1200+ on should "survive"(1) you _splashing_ Coffee on it, not just a view drops of liquid. It's totally technical doable in a number of ways and the only thing in its way is because you are fanatic about getting your laptop another mm thinner and/or profit margins. (1): Survive in the sense that it's in general fine and you at most have to replace some easy to replace not super expensive…

Apple has little motivation to fix durability issues. They've always been willing to prioritize elegance and form over durability anyway. This is a fine Italian motorcycle, not a Russian dirtbike, of course it has less tolerance for the user "using it wrong". Sure it would be nice if they made them more durable but that's just not the kind of product they are interested in making and it's working out well for them th…

> "These are fine Swiss rifles, not AKs."

"Fine swiss rifles" are known for being expensive to manufacture, not for being fragile.

Incidentally, why can I buy a fine Swiss watch that works 500 feet under the ocean, but not a fine "Swiss"(Cupertino) laptop that can withstand a few drops of tap water?

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#430

Post by dplgk »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #396
dathinab wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly any Laptop you pay 1200+ on should "survive"(1) you _splashing_ Coffee on it, not just a view drops of liquid. It's totally technical doable in a number of ways and the only thing in its way is because you are fanatic about getting your laptop another mm thinner and/or profit margins. (1): Survive in the sense that it's in general fine and you at most have to replace some easy to replace not super expensive…

Apple has little motivation to fix durability issues. They've always been willing to prioritize elegance and form over durability anyway. This is a fine Italian motorcycle, not a Russian dirtbike, of course it has less tolerance for the user "using it wrong". Sure it would be nice if they made them more durable but that's just not the kind of product they are interested in making and it's working out well for them th…

Except it's not a fine Italian motorcycle which is for leisurely cruises along mountain roads and tweaking in your garage - it's for getting work done.
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