Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

theregister.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 378 posts

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#331

Post by throwaway91872 »

jfim wrote: post #217
throwaway91872 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canada is not exactly welcoming to visitor. Particularly visitors that may have a mark on their background check from any number of years ago. Good luck getting in at all -- its becoming a common mention in hip hop lyrics even.

Pretty much any country does this. Unless you're a citizen of that country, you have no right to enter it and should be on your best behavior at all times, and they can decline you for any reason they feel like, justified or not.

I've been all across the world. I've been turned away from Canada twice (every occasion) over some weed 15 years ago. No other country cares unless you are applying for a long term visa or something. I even tried applying for the right to visit and was turned down (again, over weed).

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#332

Post by dragonwriter »

maximilianroos wrote: post #325
everdrive wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree -- and apologies, I might not have made my point very well. A different way to phrase it might be: The officers and the suspects disagree about what a reasonable suspicion might entail. Given the incentives, I don't think this is surprising. I'll admit, my point in no way addresses yours -- how often are officers adhering the the specific legal standard?

For sure, I agree I'm really not sure how often officers violate the standard; it wouldn't shock me if it were frequent But when they do, courts will suppress the evidence, and anything that's obtained from knowledge gained in that search ("fruit of the poisoned tree"). I trust that mechanism. And think it's likely better held in the US than literally any other country (v open to evidence to the contrary though)

> But when they do, courts will suppress the evidence

Not if the violation was done in “good faith”:

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/good_faith_exception_to_excl...

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#333

Post by leesalminen »

tptacek wrote: post #311
progfix wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are they even trying to find on your phone?

Evidence that you're coming to Canada to stay and perhaps work, rather than visit temporarily.

Interesting. When they ask my occupation I say that I’m a small business owner in the software industry. Is that a high risk occupation for unauthorized work in Canada?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#334

Post by wang_li »

alex_hitchins wrote: post #116
DigiMortal wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We lead the world in R&D, we aren't in a surveillance state like China (~1.3B people), we aren't undeveloped, we have the US dollar - the commanding world currency. We develop the best military technology, space technology, most all technology. We issue the most patents, by far. We (as people) have more rights than most all other nations and we led many other rights to attain rights for their own citizens. We protect…

I think you left the /s from that post. I don't believe you can seriously believe such statements.

Ignoring the silly stuff the parent poster wrote, the facts available indicate that by millions of people's analysis the US is the best country on Earth. The US naturalizes a million immigrants every year and has done so for the last thirty years. There are more than forty million non-citizens living in the US. No other country has that number of immigrants. Plus there is no country to which more Americans emigrate than from which people immigrate to the US.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#335

Post by Macross8299 »

throwaway91872 wrote: post #329
Macross8299 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Canada is not exactly welcoming to visitor. Particularly visitors that may have a mark on their background check from any number of years ago. Not a bug, working as intended. Entering a country that you aren't a citizen of isn't some inalienable human right, especially if you're a convicted criminal.

By that same token there is no reason to complain about how difficult it can be to enter the U.S. for certain individuals -- or working as intended as you call it. I also find it a bit disturbing how easily you apply law & order in the name of a country that was not involved in deciding the validity of that decision or the circumstances behind it.

>By that same token there is no reason to complain about how difficult it can be to enter the U.S. for certain individuals

Well, yeah, entering the US as a non-citizen is a privilege granted at the discretion of the US federal government. Border control is an essential function of a sovereign state.

>I also find it a bit disturbing how easily you apply law & order in the name of a country that was not involved in deciding the validity of that decision or the circumstances behind it.

It's disturbing to not want criminal elements freely entering your country? If they're a not refugee and they can't follow the law in their country of origin, why should any other country be obligated to let them in?

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#336

Post by mastox »

GordonS wrote: post #242
3487fm9so8g wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> This is a shockingly unamerican sentiment to hear So feeling fear when surrounded by 3 armed guards is "unamerican"? My questions are why were there 3 in the first place, and why were they armed? Surely that kind of "show of force" could only be justified in response to a credible threat?

If I had to guess what OP is trying to say, what is "american", is that maybe you should have been afraid of the government before it got to this point. Which means it's possible to be better prepared by knowing your rights.

> Surely that kind of "show of force" could only be justified in response to a credible threat?

Justified, of course not, but have you ever encountered bored cops, or bullies? No matter where you go, there are always corrupt individuals, and unfortunately some of them are in positions of authority.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#337

Post by maximilianroos »

dragonwriter wrote: post #332
maximilianroos wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For sure, I agree I'm really not sure how often officers violate the standard; it wouldn't shock me if it were frequent But when they do, courts will suppress the evidence, and anything that's obtained from knowledge gained in that search ("fruit of the poisoned tree"). I trust that mechanism. And think it's likely better held in the US than literally any other country (v open to evidence to the contrary though)

> But when they do, courts will suppress the evidence Not if the violation was done in “good faith”: https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/good_faith_exception_to_excl...

Yes, thanks for the reference

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#338

Post by wang_li »

schoen wrote: post #269
wang_li wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had to go through security and immigration when flying through Dublin and Seoul. So I don't think you can exempt Europe and Asia from the list.

Were you flying to or from somewhere else in Europe in the Dublin case? A subtlety about this which has just come up elsewhere in this thread is that the whole Schengen Area is treated as a single "country" for immigration purposes, so if you have an intra-European flight, you have to enter or exit "Europe" in the course of a transfer to or from an external flight. But I think if you fly, for example, from New York t…

I was flying from Seattle to Rome with a connecting flight in Dublin. In both Rome and Dublin I had to go through immigration (that is, present my passport) and in Dublin I had my carry on X-rayed again. Upon arrival in Rome, after clearing immigration I had to go through customs, which is to say I walked out the "Nothing to Declare" portal.

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#339

Post by renholder »

geofft wrote: post #118
maximilianroos wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They can hold your stuff indefinitely, so be prepared to lose it if you go this route CBP do need reasonable suspicion to hold you belongings or do a forensic search of your computer (Cotterman 2013) - they can't just randomly take things on a whim. The longer they hold it, the higher standard required.

Does refusing to unlock your devices trigger a reasonable suspicion? (In Cotterman , it sounds like the Ninth Circuit said reasonable suspicion was required, but also decided on its own - despite it not being argued by the government - that an alert from a CBP database about Cotterman's previous conviction justified a search. Which seems reasonable to me, as a layperson, I thin.)

>Cotterman's previous conviction justified a search

...and there you have it: He's done something wrong in the past, so - of course - he must be doing something bad now - forever and always!

Re: Ex-Mozilla CTO: I was grilled for three hours at US airport by border cops

#340

Post by gist »

GordonS wrote: post #265
gist wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the message it sends to me is, never visit America Message? So you read one story and a bunch of HN comments and that is how you decide?

It's not just one story though - there have been plenty stories and comments on HN, as well as other places. I'd be surprised if anyone who regularly travels to the US hasn't found it to be extremely unpleasant at times. A while back I spent 6 months or so going back and forth from the UK to Houston or Atlanta, and every time I absolutely hated going through immigration. I've travelled to dozens of countries, and lit…

> there have been plenty stories and comments on HN, as well as other places.

We have ZERO data on the probability of this happening to someone. What we do know is that when it happens to certain people and they have some kind of notoriety or the ability to get noticed we hear about it. That means there is a non rational reaction from people which makes it seem like any one person stands a large chance of having the same experience. Obviously they have not the time or resources to doing this on any widespread basis. Hence it's a small risk. Ditto for that matter to letting them see what is on your phone. Don't want to sound like the 'if you have nothing to hide' guy (Eric Schmidt) but honestly is it such a big deal? [1]

[1] By that token I have no clue why people would allow complete and total strangers access to where they live (or drive them) which to me seems like a much greater risk. (Not saying the OP did this).

Post reply on HN