Sounds like Chinese version of https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw
Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
261–270 of 335 posts
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#262Earlier quoted context omitted.
Call me a radical but I don't understand why we put people in jail and just leave them there to rot. Empathy, it seems is our deterrent. I for one am a proponent for the death sentence or medical human testing as an alternative. We would of course make sure to do this to inmates who are incapable of changing or adapting behavior to conform, and also only to those who we are 100% committed crimes. We can give them all…
I didn't really need someone to come along and serve as an example of not only some of the forms of thinking I talked about above but also as "criminal as sub-human other (not decent folks like me and mine)", but I guess it's a convenient underscoring of the idea that some people approach society very, very differently.
It's actually very humane if you think about it. It's pragmatic at the core but still retains the humanity that you say. I believe you're saying it's inhumane because we kill, but if killing 1 person improves the lives of millions, is it still inhumane? Where do you draw the line? What if we help these people you consider "sub-human" to the best of our abilities? Let's say, you get 100 tries to be "human"? Isn't that a good limit to prove themselves based on their contribution in society? What if they don't? Should we just say, "ok, this person didn't do well, let's just leave them be and support them till they die".
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#263Earlier quoted context omitted.
They are only the same in the broad sense of a social credit system, but the two credits are not the same. The social credit score system is an actual scoring system based on your overall social activities, including both financial and non-financial (e.g. the rightfully dreaded political/religious activity). No nobody knows exactly how it works and no one I know in China actually knows their score or anything even qu…
There is no nationwide social credit score system, and there's certainly no large-scale effort to score people based on their political and religious activity as part of China's social credit system. For more informed and nuanced understanding of what China's "social credit" is, I invite you to read Inkstone's earlier story: https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-social-credit-sy... And a podcast featuring a sch…
what mentioned in your article has nothing to do with the social credit system. as already mentioned in your own article, it is all about the "laolai" list maintained by courts. This system has been there for over a decade or longer, way earlier the title-bait so called "social credit system".
To give you a few examples - [1][2] are news articles discussing the exact same "laolai" list almost 10 years ago.
[1] https://finance.qq.com/a/20101214/004357.htm
[2] http://news.ifeng.com/mainland/detail_2010_10/20/2846252_0.s...
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#264Studies, especially in recent years, have shown that punishment is not an effective way of improving on self-destructive behavior. Usually things like procrastination and substance abuse are irrational symptoms of emotional drain and hopelessness, and punishment exacerbates those problems. There was an HN post about it just the other day: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19487411 . Poverty and debt tend to also p…
OP and Inkstone editor here. I think you raised a really, really interesting point. One thing I think many people overlook in China's social credit system is its stated goal – to create a system that rewards good behavior and punishes bad behavior – and whether this system can really tackle self-destructive behavior you describe, like debt. And what's going to happen to people who're entering a debt spiral, and are a…
> And what's going to happen to people who're entering a debt spiral, and are as a result further punished by the system?
please stop spreading false info. people on that "laolai" list are those who intentionally refuse to pay their debt when they have the resources to do so. as also explicitly mentioned in your own article, they are punished to the extent of being inconvenience to do certain things, e.g. in your described case, they can still ride a train just not the high speed one.
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#265I definitely felt on the wrong side of a gazillion popup banners after that click
I'm sorry you felt that way. I'm an editor of the website. What pop-up banners did you see? Would love to improve the UX for you and other readers here.
Opening up the site, I saw the headline load up, then something asking for notification permissions, then I'm not sure exactly what happened but many elements came on screen at the same time and the browser window became unresponsive (Chrome latest on a Samsung Galaxy S7). A subsequent visit worked out better, so I wonder if you have a problem on the first ever load of your site.
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#266Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism
But do you deny that felons have the same issue? How many felons do we have today that were punished by non-violent drug crimes, by design as far as I can tell. As a US citizen, I don't believe that pointing out my own faults is "whataboutism". It is self-criticism. "Whataboutism" is a defense. I am not defending China, what they are doing is awful, and we should work to make sure that the systems that we have in our…
>I do not have the ability, power, or vote to alter the course of Chinese politics.
Nor do Chinese citizens.
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#267Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is no nationwide social credit score system, and there's certainly no large-scale effort to score people based on their political and religious activity as part of China's social credit system. For more informed and nuanced understanding of what China's "social credit" is, I invite you to read Inkstone's earlier story: https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-social-credit-sy... And a podcast featuring a sch…
what mentioned in your article has nothing to do with the social credit system. as already mentioned in your own article, it is all about the "laolai" list maintained by courts. This system has been there for over a decade or longer, way earlier the title-bait so called "social credit system". To give you a few examples - [1][2] are news articles discussing the exact same "laolai" list almost 10 years ago. [1] https:…
Debt-related blacklists have been around before China's cabinet announced its intention to set up a nation-wide social credit system by 2020, but they ARE part of the social credit system. They're not exclusionary.
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#268USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.
Interesting the replies to this went in the well-trod direction of "why does the US require everyone to drive a car?" and not the equally indignant "why does the US force students to go into debt?"
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#269Earlier quoted context omitted.
OP and Inkstone editor here. I think you raised a really, really interesting point. One thing I think many people overlook in China's social credit system is its stated goal – to create a system that rewards good behavior and punishes bad behavior – and whether this system can really tackle self-destructive behavior you describe, like debt. And what's going to happen to people who're entering a debt spiral, and are a…
> And what's going to happen to people who're entering a debt spiral, and are as a result further punished by the system? please stop spreading false info. people on that "laolai" list are those who intentionally refuse to pay their debt when they have the resources to do so. as also explicitly mentioned in your own article, they are punished to the extent of being inconvenience to do certain things, e.g. in your des…
The point is, as demonstrated in the article, high speed train isn’t always a luxury. And the punishment can have the opposite effect of making people to pay their debts.
Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system
#270USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.
You mean today if you owe a large sum amount of money to another person or entity, you can get away with it when there are court rulings against you? I am on next flight to New York!