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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#181

Post by StudentStuff »

jolmg wrote: post #118
StudentStuff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only viable non-car using way to access these areas is an eBike, and even then some areas have super aggressive drivers that are happy to run you over. Unsurprisingly, people aren't too keen on walking/scootering/biking in these conditions :c

Can eBikes be taken long-distance to rural areas?

I hear that the battery I have can do 40 miles of range in flatter terrain. Here in hilly Seattle, I get 10 miles of range on it. Slower speeds also gets more range, I definitely am sacrificing range for speed when going 30mph :P

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#182

Post by StudentStuff »

vonmoltke wrote: post #131
StudentStuff wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the flipside, a 45min commute in bad traffic can be a breeze on an eBike. Building mine ran $800 all in, and its been quite a commute changer. Ultimately, these are just bandaids for low-density areas, greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting.

> greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting It might help distance, but it usually doesn't do much to help time.

Higher density means the grocery store is a 7 minute walk away rather than a 15 to 20 minute drive. Same goes for other destinations, though housing bubbles like what is occurring right now have inflicted needless commuting on many workers.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#183

Post by Frondo »

AcerbicZero wrote: post #173
coldtea wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". That's just a BS saying, not some rule of nature. Societies should define what is a privilege and what is a right. Do you think if there was a referendum on this specific matter (and not tied to 200 other policy questions, like general elections are), people would vote that "yeah, indeed driving is a privilege"?

>Societies should define what is a privilege and what is a right. That's a hard no. I see where you're going with this, and we likely agree on 90% of this topic anyway, but the issue with society defining rights is that you end up letting the mob decide the "right" of green eyed people to live has just become a privilege. Rights stem from nature, and exist with, or without society. If a society wants to add to the li…

I don't mean this in a trollish way, but can you show me a "rights" molecule?

Or explain what it would mean for rights to exist outside of a society?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#184

Post by maratd »

btrettel wrote: post #70
maratd wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm glad you like to bike. Bikes don't go 60 miles an hour, which is necessary for some individuals who work an hour or more from their residence. And no, people don't do that sort of thing because they enjoy it. They do it because they have to. Please don't ruin people's lives with your ideas.

> Bikes don't go 60 miles an hour, which is necessary for some individuals who work an hour or more from their residence. And no, people don't do that sort of thing because they enjoy it. They do it because they have to. Please don't ruin people's lives with your ideas. Reread my post, as I don't think you're responding to what I wrote. I don't advocate taking away someone's license because of debts, which I believe…

I did. You spent most of it lecturing people who use cars. I explained to you why you were wrong to do so.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#185

Post by yourbandsucks »

deogeo wrote: post #133
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

According to this quora answer [1] that quotes a whole bunch of court cases, the whole 'privilege, not a right' thing is bullshit. Try taking it to the logical conclusion - what else is a privilege, and can therefore be arbitrarily denied? A bank account? Traveling by plane or train? Connecting your house to the power/water/sewage grid? Having a post address? Buying or renting a house? Sending your children to school…

Not to mention, we've built our whole society around driving. If we were built like the Netherlands, it'd be one thing, but driving is a necessity in the USA. Take it away and people can't even function in most places.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#186

Post by yourbandsucks »

Aunche wrote: post #87
andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

> The social credit score in China... penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. This isn't the same social credit that is mentioned in this article. What you're describing is a speculated feature of a social credit system that doesn't even exist yet.

Yeah, but I've got a bucket of ominous adjectives here and a wheelbarrow full of otherism. What else you want me to do with it?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#187

Post by walshemj »

Frondo wrote: post #183
AcerbicZero wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Societies should define what is a privilege and what is a right. That's a hard no. I see where you're going with this, and we likely agree on 90% of this topic anyway, but the issue with society defining rights is that you end up letting the mob decide the "right" of green eyed people to live has just become a privilege. Rights stem from nature, and exist with, or without society. If a society wants to add to the li…

I don't mean this in a trollish way, but can you show me a "rights" molecule? Or explain what it would mean for rights to exist outside of a society?

Has the whole "inalienable rights" thing passed you by - given we are talking about the USA

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#188

Post by floe »

function_seven wrote: post #137
yorwba wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't want to know if my contractor once smoked in a no-smoking area, of if they buy too many video games. But I do want to be able to check their contractor's license and make sure there aren't complaints. Some of the pilot projects are intended to work more like that. For example, if you wanted to confirm that "Wenzhou Overseas Travel Ltd." is legit, you could check Wenzhou's portal and search for the name. htt…

Yeah, and that's fine. Especially for corporations and other fictitious entities. It's the highly personal aspects of this system that disgust me. The personal habits and nickel-and-dime shit that it vacuums up to determine a score.

While not an expert myself, when I have looked deeper into the reporting that makes claims like this, I often find that they're speculating based on one-off statements, not describing an actual extant system. I feel like the US media, even the most respectable publications, don't take appropriate care to separate fact from fiction re: social credit.

For example, I found this article really surprising: https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social...

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#190

Post by floe »

wonderwonder wrote: post #169
jondubois wrote: post #166

The bankruptcy system in the western world is far too lenient; it encourages ruthless risk-taking behavior which benefits selfish people at the expense of those who are socially conscientious. This social credit system doesn't seem so bad when you put things into perspective. If our system punished selfish people more, as a conscientious individual, I would be better off. I don't buy this bullshit that selfish people…

if you are born poor you miss out on the benefits that allow people to be successful. Take this site for example it encourages people to take risk and start a business. Worst that can happen if most of us fail is that we move in with our parents. If you grew up poor, maybe your parents don't have a place for you to stay if you fail so the ability to start a business is essentially closed to you as you don't have the…

I think the above poster is talking about corporate bankruptcy, while you are talking about personal bankruptcy. I agree with both of you :)
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