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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#81

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yorwba wrote: post #21
ada1981 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t understand how someone ends up on the list. But I’m fairly certain I understand it more than you do. You can be put on the list for all sorts of things... “examples of infractions include bad driving, smoking in non-smoking zones, buying too many video games and posting fake news online.”

You may be certain that you understand the list (this one http://zxgk.court.gov.cn/shixin/ ), but you are mistaken. You probably read an article about the "social credit system" that got the details wrong. Getting put on the list is a punishment that can be ordered by a court for various infractions, but not buying video games, because (unlike the other three) it is merely frowned upon, but not illegal. Discouraging…

Isn’t this he same as how diversely family planning laws used to be enforced? Every company/locality will come up with their own thing because the central government isn’t as powerful/focused to do something on its own. Which is good or bad depending on how you look at it.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#82

Post by seanmcdirmid »

vetrom wrote: post #75
godelski wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the US's social credit system? I mean the social part.

Credit score bureaus. A surprising array of services and accessibility is tied to the credit score.

Yes, but only your ability to repay loans is considered by those, not you ur social behavior or connections.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#83

Post by checkyoursudo »

ordu wrote: post #76
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". In a country made for a car drivers it seems like a kind of an essential privilege.

As an unrelated aside, it's also a weird phrase (though absolutely common in usage!) as the privileges of the nobles and peers, for example, were way more difficult for the crown to abrogate than were the ordinary rights of mere commoners. Privileges were strong. Maybe being able to employ, and deploy, your own soldiers would have some effect on that.

It would probably be better if the phrase were "a grant not a right" or "a license not a right", but I guess that's not as catchy.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#84

Post by StudentStuff »

massivecali wrote: post #77
ordu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". In a country made for a car drivers it seems like a kind of an essential privilege.

That was my point. As someone who walks a lot, there are also large parts of the US that are wholly inaccessible by foot.

The only viable non-car using way to access these areas is an eBike, and even then some areas have super aggressive drivers that are happy to run you over. Unsurprisingly, people aren't too keen on walking/scootering/biking in these conditions :c

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#86

Post by StudentStuff »

btrettel wrote: post #69
PhasmaFelis wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm also a cyclist, and spent most of my life biking exclusively, but not everyone is in a position to replace their car. If your car commute is 45 minutes on the highway, a bicycle is not going to help you when you lose your license.

> not everyone is in a position to replace their car I agree, which is why I said taking away someone's license is net counterproductive. Also, I'm not suggesting that people should become cyclists, just that driving is expensive.

On the flipside, a 45min commute in bad traffic can be a breeze on an eBike. Building mine ran $800 all in, and its been quite a commute changer.

Ultimately, these are just bandaids for low-density areas, greater density is needed to make the US livable without long distance commuting.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#87

Post by Aunche »

andreilys wrote: post #48

Anytime a criticism of China's social credit score is brought up, there's always a "yeah but US credit score", yet I still don't understand how the two are even in the same ballpark. The social credit score in China is far more invasive and penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores. To compare the two is disingenuous and reaks of whataboutism

> The social credit score in China... penalizes you for associating yourself with individuals who have low scores.

This isn't the same social credit that is mentioned in this article. What you're describing is a speculated feature of a social credit system that doesn't even exist yet.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#88

Post by gowld »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #30

It is an interesting experiment but if it is really a tool for social change then the ability to correct one's score can't really rely entirely on things where the individual has no control. In the US getting a felony on your record is perhaps the biggest limiter to your future success that you can do. There are so many things stacked against you at that point. In California there is at least a process for getting so…

It's China. It's a tool for social control and keeping the Communist Party billionaires in power.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#89

Post by thatcat »

iooi wrote: post #53
LeanderK wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? That sounds like a stupid idea, what if you need a car for/to reach work? then this is really counterproductive.

That's the whole point. Auto debt is usually the first payment people make since they absolutely need it to go to work. By tying student debt to the ability to drive, they're putting it on the same tier of priorities for people.

That is a very lazy way to construct an incentive system, sounds like an HR "innovation" not legislation.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#90

Post by dopamean »

lisper wrote: post #47
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

Sure, but none of that changes the fact that suspending someone's driving privilege as a punishment for failing to pay a debt is incredibly stupid and counterproductive.

The crazy reality of that situation is that people will continue to drive when the license is suspended (because they need to). I made this mistake living in Florida years ago and was literally arrested, booked, and spent a night in jail.
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