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Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

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Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#241

Post by alanwong »

wjmao88 wrote: post #238
alanwong wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inkstone editor and OP here. This IS China's social credit system. Lists of discredited people, often published by Chinese courts, are the primary mechanism by which punishment is meted out.

They are only the same in the broad sense of a social credit system, but the two credits are not the same. The social credit score system is an actual scoring system based on your overall social activities, including both financial and non-financial (e.g. the rightfully dreaded political/religious activity). No nobody knows exactly how it works and no one I know in China actually knows their score or anything even qu…

There is no nationwide social credit score system, and there's certainly no large-scale effort to score people based on their political and religious activity as part of China's social credit system. For more informed and nuanced understanding of what China's "social credit" is, I invite you to read Inkstone's earlier story: https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-social-credit-sy...

And a podcast featuring a scholar who's closely followed the development of the system, and whom we interviewed for the article above: https://chinalawandpolicy.com/2018/11/12/whats-the-t-on-chin...

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#242

Post by P_I_Staker »

AmVess wrote: post #32

USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.

I keep saying this, and while in some cases it's arguably very much deserved, we're already here. We have a very Scarlett letter mentality. Don't get dinged once or your life is ruined. We even see something like getting fired (which can happen for many reasons), as an albotrose a person should carry forever.

Obviously, I need to point out that in many ways we're not like China, and plenty of people who get fired, commit crimes, lose their drivers licenses, default on debt, ect. live happy and prosperous lives.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#243

Post by AlexCoventry »

btrettel wrote: post #55
AmVess wrote: post #32

USA is heading down this road, too. 21 states will suspend your driver's license if you fall behind on student debt. This is ass backwards and destructive thinking. I am certain this is just the start of greater restrictions on the unfortunate.

Cyclist here. I'm amazed by how much money people spend on their vehicles. I have an expensive bike (about $1000 new), and aside from perhaps $100-$200 on maintenance and equipment per year, I spend nothing else for daily transportation. It's hard for cars to compete with that on cost. I think suspending someone's drivers' license due to debts could help reduce one's transportation spending. Unfortunately, much of th…

I used to think that way until I lived in NoVA for a couple of years. Cycling on the roads there would have been quite dangerous.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#244

Post by P_I_Staker »

deogeo wrote: post #133
massivecali wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". You can lose your license for all kinds of 'unfair' reasons that do not make sense, and I agree it's heavy handed to include student loan debt, but until it is Federally acknowledged that all citizens have a right to drive (after passing proper license tests), then this downward progression will continue. In California you can't even registe…

According to this quora answer [1] that quotes a whole bunch of court cases, the whole 'privilege, not a right' thing is bullshit. Try taking it to the logical conclusion - what else is a privilege, and can therefore be arbitrarily denied? A bank account? Traveling by plane or train? Connecting your house to the power/water/sewage grid? Having a post address? Buying or renting a house? Sending your children to school…

I don't agree that it's a right, but these things are definitely needs that the government should ensure access to. I think of rights as things like equality and free speech. Calling it a privilege and pretending it's something you can just do without is insane. Healthcare is a similar issue. I don't think it's a right, yet I'm shocked by the number of people out there that literally want others to die, so they don't have to pay money.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#245

Post by alanwong »

geuszb wrote: post #189

I definitely felt on the wrong side of a gazillion popup banners after that click

I'm sorry you felt that way. I'm an editor of the website. What pop-up banners did you see? Would love to improve the UX for you and other readers here.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#246

Post by P_I_Staker »

checkyoursudo wrote: post #83
ordu wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As I've been reminded countless times, "driving is a privilege not a right". In a country made for a car drivers it seems like a kind of an essential privilege.

As an unrelated aside, it's also a weird phrase (though absolutely common in usage!) as the privileges of the nobles and peers, for example, were way more difficult for the crown to abrogate than were the ordinary rights of mere commoners. Privileges were strong. Maybe being able to employ, and deploy, your own soldiers would have some effect on that. It would probably be better if the phrase were "a grant not a righ…

No, that's what they want. Lose it and you end up part of the depised underclass. Unable to travel by rule of law.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#247

Post by NoblePublius »

I don’t see how this is functionally different than having your wages garnished by a court order. Deadbeat dads are subject to the same financial scrutiny in the US. I get the feeling now that much of the criticism of this system is just Western media clickbait.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#248

Post by wjmao88 »

alanwong wrote: post #241
wjmao88 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are only the same in the broad sense of a social credit system, but the two credits are not the same. The social credit score system is an actual scoring system based on your overall social activities, including both financial and non-financial (e.g. the rightfully dreaded political/religious activity). No nobody knows exactly how it works and no one I know in China actually knows their score or anything even qu…

There is no nationwide social credit score system, and there's certainly no large-scale effort to score people based on their political and religious activity as part of China's social credit system. For more informed and nuanced understanding of what China's "social credit" is, I invite you to read Inkstone's earlier story: https://www.inkstonenews.com/society/chinas-social-credit-sy... And a podcast featuring a sch…

The Chinese government advertises that system as one based on all kinds of activity. Political/religious are just examples since those are usually the focal points in matters like these.

The system is claimed to be backed by big data, and sure you can say there is no numerical score but come on.

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#249

Post by P_I_Staker »

mruts wrote: post #152
godelski wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 5% of Americans take public transit to get to work. rephrasing: 95% of Americans take private transit to get to work. I would call that an almost certainty that you need a car.

If there was a 5% the market would crash 50% tomorrow. Would you call that an almost certainty that it wouldn't happen? You wouldn't hedge your risk? If there was a 5% that you would die tomorrow, you wouldn't feel concerned? 5% is huge.

What are you talking about? If 5% of the workforce showed up tomorrow, what do you think would happen? How'd you feel if you had a 5% chance of having transport to work?

Re: Life on the wrong side of China’s social credit system

#250

Post by not_kurt_godel »

NoblePublius wrote: post #247

I don’t see how this is functionally different than having your wages garnished by a court order. Deadbeat dads are subject to the same financial scrutiny in the US. I get the feeling now that much of the criticism of this system is just Western media clickbait.

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